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pfloydphanatic
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 240
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:59 am Post subject: anybody know what this is? |
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this has been happening for many months, its not major problem but it does get worse if i plug my PJ into my powerbook and use 1280x768... this is how it looks with a line doubler...
its an Electrohome ECP 4100 btw.
Last edited by pfloydphanatic on Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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Fujifrontier
Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 354
Location: San Antonio, Texas
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:00 am Post subject: |
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wrinkly screen? 
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pfloydphanatic
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 240
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:02 am Post subject: |
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yah.. its just one of those cheap ass room darkeners.. someday when i get some $ i'll get an actual screen..
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Fujifrontier
Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 354
Location: San Antonio, Texas
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:37 am Post subject: |
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I was just kiddin. Mine is probably more wrinkly 
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pfloydphanatic
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 240
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:45 am Post subject: |
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lol
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Zebu Fellenz
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 2567
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:50 am Post subject: |
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What's the source (model line doubler)
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pfloydphanatic
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 240
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:08 am Post subject: |
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DVDO iScan Plus Version 2.. but it does it with my powerbook as well, going directly with the VGA output at high res. it seems to be worse at high res too. but its at the bottom half of the screen in that case. it seems to be just the blue tube, which has the worst wear.. i don't know if youc an see the two verticle lines on either side of the screen in those screenshots.
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:12 am Post subject: |
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Silly...it a chuch in "The Simpsons Movie"
If it were a NEC projector I would say it was from using too much RGB point adjustment.
Mike
_________________
Doing HD since the last century!
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pfloydphanatic
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 240
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:38 am Post subject: |
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whats RGB point adjustment? but the convergence does tend to drift a lot, its annoying. and yeah it is the simpson movie hehe, second time watching it since i got it for xmas.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:57 am Post subject: |
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Mike's talking about point convergence, which is called 'zone' convergence in Sony terminology. If you've dialed a whole bunch of zone convergence in, it will lead to all sorts of instability - and it usually gets worse the higher the resolution/scan rate. If you've used a lot of point convergence that's likely your trouble.
On a scale of 1-10, how good would you say your convergence is before you start using any zone? You should just be using zone to tweak the corners a bit - usually just red and blue. If you're doing a lot more than that, your physical setup is probably lacking. How anal retentive are/were you when you set up the projector to be square to the screen (wall), level to the floor, etc.
I can tell you that without something like a real screen with borders, etc. it's really hard to nail the physical setup.
SC
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:21 am Post subject: |
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| pfloydphanatic wrote: | | whats RGB point adjustment? but the convergence does tend to drift a lot, its annoying. and yeah it is the simpson movie hehe, second time watching it since i got it for xmas. |
With a NEC you should dial in your geometry with the controls like Tilt/Skew, Bow, Linearly, Amplitude, Keystone & Pincushion it also has adjustments to stretch or compress specific parts of image the for very slight corrections. I don’t like to use any point corrections when I setup an input on my NEC because it will cause an effect like I see on your screen shots. I can't say about your Electrohome because I have never set one up before.
Excessive convergence drift can be caused by "pushing" certain adjustments harder than they should be. In a many cases this is caused by poor mechanical alignment. On a NEC there is considerable interaction of controls. If you are fairly new at performing a setup it’s very easy to “push” a setting when actually you should be using a different adjustment to achieve the desired result. That sounds confusing I know but I don’t know any other way to explain it.
Mike
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Doing HD since the last century!
Last edited by MikeEby on Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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pfloydphanatic
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 240
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:38 am Post subject: |
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not really anal with the physical setup.. i think i may be tweaking the corners a bit too much maybe... did i cause irreversible damage to my projector or something? or if i reset everything and get the projector more parallel to the screen.. and get a more suitable screen in the future.. will that fix the problem?
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kschmit2
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1141
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| MikeEby wrote: |
With a NEC you should dial in your geometry with the controls like Tilt/Skew, Bow, Linearly, Amplitude, Keystone & Pincushion it also has adjustments to stretch or compress specific parts of image the for very slight corrections. I don’t like to use any point corrections when I setup an input on my NEC because it will cause an effect like I see on your screen shots. I can't say about your Electrohome because I have never set one up before.
Excessive convergence drift can be caused by "pushing" certain adjustments harder than they should be. In a many cases this is caused by poor mechanical alignment. On a NEC there is considerable interaction of controls. If you are fairly new at performing a setup it’s very easy to “push” a setting when actually you should be using a different adjustment to achieve the desired result. That sound confusing I know but I don’t know any other way to explain it.
Mike |
This is OT for the thread starter but may be of interest to those with a NEC, and considering a Point Convergence board, or using it.
What Mike says is essentially correct. Excessive Point corrections will lead to all sorts of negative effects (picture breaking up, waves and so on), but this doesn't mean that Point Convergence will always lead to those effects.
As a rule of thumb, normalize Point Convergence, then do Alignement and Convergence as good as you can while feeding a cross fine pattern from your source (in case of HTPCs e.g. from the NEC Monitor Test application).
To get the PJ to display a source pattern while in Alignment/Convergence/Point Convergence mode, hit "Test", then "End" on the remote.
Using only the Alignment and Convergence controls you should be able to get your entire screen converged so that all of the line are within 0.5 to 1 line-width. In most areas of the screen it should be spot on at that point.
Only now should you start with Point Convergence. The adjustments you do now will not have any detrimental effect on the image or convergence stability.
One hint when adjusting the edges of the screen: the point convergence cursor can be moved one or 2 clicks past the edges of the screen (just try it by moving the cursor off the screen. I will jump to the opposite side after a couple of clicks. That way you can figure out how many additional clicks you have on each side).
So, when you want to make adjustments to the edges of the screen, don't make agressive adjustments at the last visible spot of the cursor, but move the cursor one step out first, and start adjustments there. Only then move it to the visible position again and fine tune it.
Kai
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kschmit2
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1141
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| pfloydphanatic wrote: | | not really anal with the physical setup.. i think i may be tweaking the corners a bit too much maybe... did i cause irreversible damage to my projector or something? or if i reset everything and get the projector more parallel to the screen.. and get a more suitable screen in the future.. will that fix the problem? |
It should all be ok once you reset it
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remotebandit
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 32
Location: Australia , Victoria
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:33 am Post subject: |
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MIght have something to do with me blowing my PA board on the G70 ... excellent topic weve come accross here
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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Since it hasn't really been pointed out, I'll also mention that it isn't just point/zone convergence that can give you trouble. If your projector isn't square and centered on the screen and you're using a ton of keystone, bow, skew, etc. those things can also stress the machine. It will run hotter, be less stable, and because of the heat will likely have a failure much sooner or more often than a projector with more mild adjustments. Physical setup is really critical.
Floyd fan, if it isn't a big deal and you have some time to burn, try resetting all your geometry controls and see if the artifact is still there. Blow out all the zone, and reset all other geometry controls.
To me it looks like the vertical deflection isn't stable. Those lines are are areas where the scan lines are either overlapping (creating brighter areas) or too far apart (causing dimmer areas).
SC
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pfloydphanatic
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 240
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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hmm... interesting, thanks everyone for your help. i'll try to do the best with my POS screen i'm not sure how to get my PJ parallel to my screen though. i'll figure something out though.
EDIT: looks much better that i reset + adjusted the crt tilt screws first before doing the electronic convergence. and it seems rather square to the screen as far as i measured.. theres just a tinsy line in the screen now... i should do a better job on the physical adjustment though.. but its better than it was.
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