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GREG1292
Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 417
Location: indiana
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jkruger
Joined: 24 Oct 2007
Posts: 2435
Location: Carlsbad, CA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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Do Not send him any info. You will get screwed.
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GREG1292
Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 417
Location: indiana
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papalek
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 1536
Location: Longs SC
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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I have an account that is just for this type of thing. I neverr use the account for ANY of my real dealings. The account NEVER has more than $10 in it. If the person pays then I withdrawal the money and do the deal,if they try to take money there is nothing to take.
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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I usually use bank transfers for large overseas transactions. I don['t see how someone can take money OUT of your account, they can only transfer funds INTO the account. It's worked fine for me for years.
I wouldn't give my info to an Indonesian though, but Europe, no problems there.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah. People do legitimate business with wire transfers every day. I can't remember, but I was thinking there was no seller protection w/PayPal on international transactions - so even less of a 'guarantee' there than there usually is.
The bank should be able to give you the information necessary for a sender to wire you money. That infomation would not be adequate to *withdraw* funds from the receiver's account. I wouldnt have much concern as the receiver (seller). Its as good as cash. As a buyer, obviously you're essentially fronting all the cash. The buyer is really assuming all the risk if he's wiring funds.
SC
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Moose
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 788
Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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How about Western Union? I know they've gotten a bad rap, but I believe you can verify if a Western Union money order is valid or not and may even be able to cash it at some Western Union locations. They also used to run a service called Bidpay, but I can't find it anymore.
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garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12088
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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Greg, what did your bank tell you?? I agree with Curt & SC, this is a normal way of doing business world-wide. I can't believe the banks would set it up so someone could transfer OUT without your permission.
That said, papalek has the right idea. We use an account like this as well: its only function is to receive funds (which are then immediately transferred to another account) or to wire funds out (which we transfer in right before doing the wire).
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GREG1292
Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 417
Location: indiana
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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If it's the Massimo I've dealt with, there were no issues (not sure how many Massimos there are in Italy)..
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| jkruger wrote: | | Do Not send him any info. You will get screwed. |
| GREG1292 wrote: | I talked to my bank and you are right.  Thanks |
no this is totally wrong. For a wire, the sender needs your name and account number, which you give you out every time you write a check (ten digit number on bottom), and your banks routing number. Once the money is wired in by the sender it cannot be withdrawn by anyone except the account owner. Greg if you accepted PP and are happy then that's fine but they are the LEAST trustworthy form of payment IMO and I can only imagine how hard they screwed you on their bogus "currency converter" charges. Last time I checked, it was around 5% or more. 
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garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12088
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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That's how it works for ACH, but you have to use a different method (e.g. SWIFT) for international funds transfers. I think that requires different banking info. But it should be at least as safe as ACH. The bank in Ft. Wayne might not know anything about it, though... 
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mhalsan
Joined: 09 Nov 2007
Posts: 146
Location: Astoria, Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Moose wrote: | | How about Western Union? I know they've gotten a bad rap, but I believe you can verify if a Western Union money order is valid or not and may even be able to cash it at some Western Union locations. They also used to run a service called Bidpay, but I can't find it anymore. |
I used Western Union just a few weeks ago. The money transfer was not completed for some reason, and it took about three weeks to get my money back, minus their 4% fee of course. Based on my experience with their customer service I wouldn't go there again.
PayPal has worked correctly for me for several years now, but I'll bet there's some interesting stories to be heard about them as well.
Thanks, mhalsan
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jkruger
Joined: 24 Oct 2007
Posts: 2435
Location: Carlsbad, CA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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I've never had a problem with paypal, but i don't do business outside the continent.
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GREG1292
Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 417
Location: indiana
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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I know that I could have saved money with a wire transfer but I figured paypal into the crate charge
so I am not worried about the fees. I just thought the world revolved around paypal I have never been screwed
and have done wire transfer and it was a pain in the ass. I had to go thru some broker? It was Massimo and I am sure
he is a good guy. I was not planning on shipping worldwide but can't believe it was only 285.00 to Italy! Hell it was 215.00 from california to me
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Elaine Benes
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 1416
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| Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:41 am Post subject: |
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Wire transfers are absolutely safe, safer than Paypal, money orders or any other form of payment. Once a wire transfer is in your account, its just like you went in and deposited cash, there is absolutely no way at all for it to be removed, except by you. This is UNLIKE Paypal, or any form of paper payment like a money order or such. Paypal can remove money directly from your account, or charge your credit card and screw you hard, paper products can be forged.
Any/all the info you give out for a money transfer is ONLY usable to DEPOSIT money....
Paypal is convenient, but certainly not safe, nor guaranteed, nor cheap, their interests are their primary concern....
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Moose
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 788
Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Paypal can remove money directly from your account |
Uhhh - no, it can't without your authorization. To do so without your authorization would be theft and Paypal would be in trouble. Furthermore, you can tell your bank to deny withdrawals from whatever party you want.
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In the real world, I am alan halvorson, King of the Wild Frontier and Swell Guy.
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Elaine Benes
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 1416
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| Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Moose wrote: | | Quote: | | Paypal can remove money directly from your account |
Uhhh - no, it can't without your authorization. To do so without your authorization would be theft and Paypal would be in trouble. Furthermore, you can tell your bank to deny withdrawals from whatever party you want. |
You can, however, when I set up my Paypal account(this may have changed) one was required to add Paypal to the list of companies authorized for "automatic" withdrawals, like one does with one's mortgage payments. This is necessary if you want to pay people directly from your account, and as far as I know, is still the standard way to sign up for Paypal.
Telling your bank specifically to deny access to Paypal will effectively close your Paypal account if you attempt to pay for something with a direct withdrawal.
There are NUMEROUS stories of Paypal withdrawing funds from accounts to cover payment disputes. It is a common occurrence, and well documented on the other forum. It is why people recommend that they have a separate "Paypal" bank account which is ONLY used for Paypal transactions and emptied after every payment received.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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Elaine is exactly right. PayPal can and absolutely does remove money from an account in the case of dispute. Often, they remove the funds and hold them before they even decide fault or responsibility- so you can't take the money out. They don't NEED permission at the time because you gave it to them when you registered for your PayPal account!
In the case of a payment dispute, if they find against you, they'll just pull the funds right out of your account. If the funds aren't there (if you moved them to another account or spent them for instance), then they take away the account's PayPal privileges and blacklist your name so you can't get another PayPal account. I've read numerous reports of that very thing happening.
Take a look here:
http://www.paypalsucks.com/
WHEN BUYING:
USE A CREDIT CARD if you buy anything expensive on fleabay. If you do, at least you can dispute the charges with your credit card company. You may lose your ability to use PayPal again, but you won't be out the money.
WHEN SELLING:
Follow the PayPal Seller's Rules obsessively. Ship with delivery verification - preferably with a signature - only to a confirmed address. Yes, that means FedEx or UPS, not USPS. Document everything. If you don't follow seller's rules exactly, they will find against you in a dispute - by default. Obviously, you can relax a little on smaller sales, but whenever I sell something expensive on fleabay, I'm EXTREMELY cautious about how conduct the transaction with PayPal.
SC
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Elaine Benes wrote: | | There are NUMEROUS stories of Paypal withdrawing funds from accounts to cover payment disputes. It is a common occurrence, and well documented on the other forum. It is why people recommend that they have a separate "Paypal" bank account which is ONLY used for Paypal transactions and emptied after every payment received. |
This is exactly what I and many others do. Just be prepared to lose your PayPal account at some point if - for whatever reason PayPal finds against you in a dispute - and the funds aren't there to cover it.
Of course, that would be much preferable to losing much money.
SC
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He wants all my bank info and I don't feel safe doing that. I ask to have him paypal and he would not answer that form of payment. I feel like I might get screwed. How do I protect myself or just say screw it and wait for someone else.
