CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

psstereo · Joined: 24 Nov 2007 Posts: 10

Help,
I am trying to decide on a convertor as my projector won't input HDMI and most of the sources only output the better formats over the HDMI. I was looking at a DVDO VP-30 or possibly a VP-50 until I realized that the output could be shut off by the HDCP. Sad

I'm not sure if this is an issue yet, but I didn't want to spend money only to realize it is outdated already. I own a DVDO I-scan plus now and it has always sent a great signal to my projector (Zenith 900 Pro X) I was considering one of the stand alone solutions such as the Moome or McFury, but was not sure if one did a better job than the other. Do both convert the 1080p/24 that the Blue Ray players output. I'm not sure if that would even look good on my projector, and if I change it to 1080p/48, will my projector even be able to process it. I may upgrade my projector at some point, so I'd like whatever I buy to be compatible with a high bandwidth projector. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

paw · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 1176 Location: Arvada, CO

Welcome Phil!

I believe most HD DVD or Blu Ray players can be set to output 720p/60Hz and 1080i/60Hz. Even if they can output 1080p/24Hz. There's still only a few displays that can accept1080p/24Hz. So, it wouldn't make good business sense to limit a player to 1080p/24Hz.

If you have a 720p or 1080i source, there's little use for a scaler. Unless your PJ can resolve 1080p. Others will disagree.

The Moome, HDFury or 1080Box should be enough for you.

psstereo · Joined: 24 Nov 2007 Posts: 10

Paw,

Thanks for the help. I realize it's only a starting point, and most people have different opinions on the usefullness of the scaler/video processor. Do you have any experience with any of the convertors you mentioned. I have a RGB cable already ran to the projector that would take some work to change out. I believe this limits me with the McFury unless I use it in conjunction with another processor with a driver stage at the output. I'm not sure if the cable I am using would be able to pass all of the signals if I changed the ends to a HDMI (or DVI) style plug. I also either need some additional inputs as my reciever doesn't accept and/or switch HDMI. (Blue ray and Direct TV) I would also like to be able to keep my Laser disc player and (gasp!) S-VHS player (although its' days are numbered) hooked up to the I-scan plus, or something else. Would I be better off trying to remove the HDCP first, and then converting the signal? So much to think about. Am I just making this too complicated?

paw · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 1176 Location: Arvada, CO

I don't have any experience with either convertor. I have a Moome external on order.

The Moome outputs RGB. It will drive long RGB cables by itself.

The HDFury outputs RGB. It will NOT drive RGB cables. You need a scaler or switcher or Extron booster box to drive long RGB cables. The HDFury is only supposed to be used with very short RGB cables.

I not sure how many inputs your DVDO I-scan plus has but if it has enough RGB inputs you could do something like

HDMI -> HDFury or Moome (RGB) -> DVDO (RGB) -> PJ

existing RGB sources #1 -> DVDO (RGB) -> PJ

existing RGB sources #2 -> DVDO (RGB) -> PJ

existing S-Video source #1 (Laser disc) -> DVDO (RGB) -> PJ

existing S-Video source #2 (S-VHS) -> DVDO (RGB) -> PJ

So, essentially the Moome or HDFury is just another RGB source for your DVDO.

The HDCP and conversion from HDMI to RGB, with the devices, happened at the same time.

psstereo · Joined: 24 Nov 2007 Posts: 10

Aubrey,

Unfortunately, the DVDO I-scan I have is an older model and only inputs S-video or composite. I am using a VGA auto switcher right now which would give me one more input provided it will handle the additional bandwidth. This however means I'm without a driver again. I may just order a Moome and be done with it. I know you haven't gotten your Moome yet, but any idea how good the conversion to analog is?

Thanks again for the help,

Phil

paw · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 1176 Location: Arvada, CO

AAAA!!

So your inputs are

VGA 1 -+
...........+-> VGA switcher -> D
VGA 2 -+............................. V ---(RGB) --> PJ
S-Video ----------------------> D
composite -------------------> O

The Moome offers 2 HDMI and 1 component inputs. It will autoswitch between the inputs. So, if the bandwidth of the VGA switcher and DVDO RGB passthrough are high enough. you could just plug it into a VGA input. You might need a VGA/RGB breakout cable and VGA gender changer to plug the Moome in with. It's 5 BNC (RGBHV) only. You could replace your VGA switcher with one of the necessary bandwidth. You'll still need to check the bandwidth of your DVDO.

You other option is to get a RGB switcher. NEC made a good one called ISS6010 and 6020. Sony has one. Moome makes HDMI cards that work in those. I think. There was also one from Barco. That would be less $ than a VP30/50. With less functionality of course.

The 1st batch of 100 Moome external HDMI boxes are starting to arrive at people's homes. Check the Moome forum here for reviews. There maybe some issues with 1080p input and edge enhancements. Other Moome products have been good to great. He's pretty good about resolving issues with his products. Some times he's slow.

The 2nd batch of 50 Moome external HDMI boxes is almost t sold out. It was down to 12 last week when I ordered one. They're scheduled for a late December 2007 delivery. However, it's more likely 2008. These products are a hobby and 2nd job for him. Plus, other issues: bad boards, delays in parts delivery, etc. slow things down.

I don't know if there will be a 3rd batch of external HDMI boxes.

Just FYI, the HDFury has an issue with shifting the image to the left. You have to adjust your PJ for this and store a new memory block.

psstereo · Joined: 24 Nov 2007 Posts: 10

Aubrey,

Let me give you a little more info so we can get on the same page. The DVDO I presently own has only composite and S-video inputs, without a RGB pass through. I probably should have clarified that earlier. My setup before I added the new Direct TV receiver and the Blue Ray player was:

HD Sat --- RGB ----------------------------------------------
\

Laser disc ---- RGB auto switcher ----- projector
\
Sat TIVO ----- /
> --- DVDO Line doubler --- RGB ------
S-VHS --------
/
DVD ----------

I also was using my receiver to handle some of the switching going into the DVDO. Now I am going to need 2 HDMI inputs as well as S-video and/or composite. I am starting to think that the manufacturers just want to sell us new gear. Who is supposed to be protected by the HDCP anyway? Someone needs to come up with a crack to download into our gear to shut off the HDCP. I am sure someone is working on that right now.

Thanks again,

Phil

paw · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 1176 Location: Arvada, CO

OK! It sounds like the Moome would be best. Since it has 2 HDMI inputs and a component input. The doc says it will autoswitch between them. Just be aware that there's issues with edge enhancement from the gamma adjustment circuit on the Moome. It outputs RGB.

If your RGB auto switcher only has 3 inputs (you'll need 4) or doesn't have enough bandwidth, you'll need to replace it.

Unfortuantely, equipment does become obsolete as technology progresses.

HDCP is there to "protect" the content providers and cause headaches to users! I'm sure when the pirate want to copy the digital stream, they'll come up with a solution. The Moome, HDFury and the like are the solutions for end users. We just want to WATCH the damn content we've paid for on the display of OUR choice.

psstereo · Joined: 24 Nov 2007 Posts: 10

Amen to that! You are right, the real criminals have the resources to get around the damn copy protection. If the studios would just price the dvds low enough, they could eliminate the profits for the pirates. Probably not going to happen in this lifetime. I'm checking on the bandwidth of the autoswitcher and probably ordering a Moome as it sounds like the best option for my dilemma. I'll let you know what I end up with. Thanks for the insight.

Happy holidays,

Phil

psstereo · Joined: 24 Nov 2007 Posts: 10

Aubrey,

just to clarify. The Moome outputs RGB even when the HDCP signal is present, correct? Just wanted to make sure as the information listed is kind of vague on that. I noticed some of the converters shut off when the HDCP is present which is what they should do according to what I have read. Still confused as to why the analog needs to be shut off other than from a manufacturer's standpoint to sell more new sets.

Thanks,

Phil

paw · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 1176 Location: Arvada, CO

Hi Phil
Yes. Moome will output RGB even when HDCP is present. Other units shut it off because of MPAA pressure. Being in Taiwan, maybe their arms aren't long enough.

evan98gt · Joined: 28 Nov 2007 Posts: 13 Location: Atlanta

I had many of the same issues with my Iscan HD and Mits HDTV with only one hidef component input. As an alternative you may be able to user your audio receiver as a switching source if your TV has more than one hidef input. Using the
Iscan HD I went from the DVD to the DVI input to the HD Fury to the HD passthru to the TV. Finally sold the HD Fury and
bought a VP 30 and will wait out the hi def dvd wars for a while. My Mits rptv crt is a great picture but the single hi def
component input is quite limiting. If $ was no problem I would buy a Sony SXRD 60 inch tv.

psstereo · Joined: 24 Nov 2007 Posts: 10

Evan,
Thanks for the response. I am currently awaiting a Moome EXT-HD although during the waiting period, I picked up a Sony Blu Ray player that I've had converted to HD-SDI and a VP50pro with the HD-SDI card. Unfortunately that combination isn't working correctly and I am awaiting either Anchor Bay or JVB Digital to figure out how to make the two work together. Currently it looks as if I may end up using the EXT-HD (if it ever shows up) until the two companies stop passing the buck. As far as the format wars go, GO BLU-RAY! Although I have this deja vu of Beta vs VHS and fear that price will become the main deciding factor for a lot of people.

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:41 pm Post subject: Re: HDCP compiant HDMI to RGB

Person99 · Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 4899 Location: Flower Mound, TX

Just so you know, you want a device that is NOT HDCP compliant. An HDCP compliant device will not produce an analog signal from an HDCP encrypted digital signal. All scalers are HDCP compliant--that's the problem. Smile

**kal** · Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:46 pm Post subject:

Depends who you talk to I suppose or what angle you're referring to. Moome and others call their HDMI to RGB converters as "HDCP compliant" and they definitely produce an analog signal from an HDCP encrypted digital signal.

Kal

Person99 · Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 4899 Location: Flower Mound, TX

**kal** · Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:46 pm Post subject:

I don't question the links or facts, just pointing out that depending on who you talk to, the term is used in both ways (where of course as you've pointed out, one of the ways is incorrect).

And I don't just mean the people selling the products, I mean the users as well. Everyone seems to use it differently. Not lying, just not clear on whether 'compliant' means that analog should be turned off if an encrypted signal is present or if 'compliant' means that it'll pass an encrypted signal through to analog.

Kal

Person99 · Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 4899 Location: Flower Mound, TX

**kal** · Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:44 pm Post subject: