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JustGreg
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3098
Location: Kenosha, WI
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:26 pm Post subject: Side networking gig. How to price |
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A customer of mine with a slew of Sprint Nextel handsets I support is adding GPS scheduling and tracking to them all and needs his dispatchers (a limo company) stations upgraded to support the move.
This is all on a peer network BTW....I have to add 2 new PC's, one with a dual head vid card, a small amount of CAT5/6 cabling work to tie them to a new Netgear 10/100 8 port hub, I assume printer sharing, and DVI cabling to a 20" LCD that will be on the wall (haven't determined the length of the cable yet) for anyone who cares to look at look at it (beats me....it's his money). Of course the 2 PC's will be fresh out of the box and require setup time; probably the most time I spend on the whole project, and possibly the installation of a few random software packages.
It's been quite a few years since I've done this for a living and even then I was a propeller head grunt working for someone else, so I'm not sure how to price this. I hesitate to give him a flat rate for the entire job...I know how those things can go t*ts up in a hurry, but that's the kind of guy he is so there's that to deal with. I'm thinking an hourly rate and want to be fair but make it worth my while. Anybody have any ideas on a fair rate or the best overall way to bill this?
Thanks!
Greg
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Greg
"Is it ignorance or apathy? Hey, I don't know and I don't care!" --Jimmy Buffett
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overclkr
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 4227
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:37 pm Post subject: Re: Side networking gig. How to price |
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| JustGreg wrote: | A customer of mine with a slew of Sprint Nextel handsets I support is adding GPS scheduling and tracking to them all and needs his dispatchers (a limo company) stations upgraded to support the move.
This is all on a peer network BTW....I have to add 2 new PC's, one with a dual head vid card, a small amount of CAT5/6 cabling work to tie them to a new Netgear 10/100 8 port hub, I assume printer sharing, and DVI cabling to a 20" LCD that will be on the wall (haven't determined the length of the cable yet) for anyone who cares to look at look at it (beats me....it's his money). Of course the 2 PC's will be fresh out of the box and require setup time; probably the most time I spend on the whole project, and possibly the installation of a few random software packages.
It's been quite a few years since I've done this for a living and even then I was a propeller head grunt working for someone else, so I'm not sure how to price this. I hesitate to give him a flat rate for the entire job...I know how those things can go t*ts up in a hurry, but that's the kind of guy he is so there's that to deal with. I'm thinking an hourly rate and want to be fair but make it worth my while. Anybody have any ideas on a fair rate or the best overall way to bill this?
Thanks!
Greg |
Greg,
I charge 80 bucks an hour.
Cliff
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JustGreg
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3098
Location: Kenosha, WI
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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Works for me. This guy is like most businessmen I think in that he wants everything for nothing...and I don't mean that in a bad way. That's how business stays in business. But he's also a royal PITA sometimes when it comes to just supporting his network of Nextel phones and he pays Sprint monthly...not me.
The way I see it is if I don't charge him enough he'll hound me for every little thing that isn't even related to the work I've done. If I charge too much, he'll find someone else and I lose out on the extra cash. I think $80.00 sounds just right to keep him right where he wants me. 
Thanks Cliff. BTW, is IT your source of income or like me just an way to make a few extra bucks? There's a position open in the company my wife works at but I don't know CISCO. I pretty much left the industry 8 years ago just before the DotBomb and dealt mainly with small office networks.
Anywho...thanks again.
Greg
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Greg
"Is it ignorance or apathy? Hey, I don't know and I don't care!" --Jimmy Buffett
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zaphod
Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 2002
Location: Cloverdale
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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charge a flat rate for the install/setup, but negotiate a per hour for maintanence.
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walk gently. leave a good impression.
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JustGreg
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3098
Location: Kenosha, WI
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| zaphod wrote: | | charge a flat rate for the install/setup, but negotiate a per hour for maintanence. |
Another good idea. I talked with him late yesterday afternoon and he went to BB to buy three PC's, a Linksys Wireless 5 port, and three wireless networking cards. 
MY plan was 2 PC's, regular 10/100 NIC's (which are built into the Gateway PC's anyway), a Netgear 10/100 8 port hub (with firewall), a dual head vid card for one PC, and a 20+ inch LCD DVI monitor to hang on the wall so anyone who cared to look could see where everyone is without having to sit down at the third PC. He told me "the kid" at BB said he'd need a third PC to open the webpage for TeleNav that his dispatchers will be using. I told him of course "the kid" would say that...he's commissioned. He saw the benefit of what I planned but grabbed balls and wouldn't admit it. He just said "Well, at least I'll have a spare computer." This is a man who acts like the kind of person who grudgingly buys spare socks and underwearnever mind $600.00 spare PC's.
Then the owner started pumping me for free info on how to connect it all...I love his questions, "All I have to do is plug it all into the router and they'll all work right? Or, "Once they're all plugged together, everyone can use the printer right?" I didn't answer one single question.
I simply told him that if he wanted me to tie it all together and create a small peer network with shared printer I'd be more than happy to do it but I charge $80.00 an hour. As I expected, he told me he'd figure it out...
No he won't. I'll just make more money correcting his f-ups.
sh*t...I've just seen my Fury go out the window damnit. 
Greg
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Greg
"Is it ignorance or apathy? Hey, I don't know and I don't care!" --Jimmy Buffett
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Heywood Jablome
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 1548
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| JustGreg wrote: | | zaphod wrote: | | charge a flat rate for the install/setup, but negotiate a per hour for maintanence. |
Another good idea. I talked with him late yesterday afternoon and he went to BB to buy three PC's, a Linksys Wireless 5 port, and three wireless networking cards.
MY plan was 2 PC's, regular 10/100 NIC's (which are built into the Gateway PC's anyway), a Netgear 10/100 8 port hub (with firewall), a dual head vid card for one PC, and a 20+ inch LCD DVI monitor to hang on the wall so anyone who cared to look could see where everyone is without having to sit down at the third PC. He told me "the kid" at BB said he'd need a third PC to open the webpage for TeleNav that his dispatchers will be using. I told him of course "the kid" would say that...he's commissioned. He saw the benefit of what I planned but grabbed balls and wouldn't admit it. He just said "Well, at least I'll have a spare computer." This is a man who acts like the kind of person who grudgingly buys spare socks and underwearnever mind $600.00 spare PC's.
Then the owner started pumping me for free info on how to connect it all...I love his questions, "All I have to do is plug it all into the router and they'll all work right? Or, "Once they're all plugged together, everyone can use the printer right?" I didn't answer one single question.
I simply told him that if he wanted me to tie it all together and create a small peer network with shared printer I'd be more than happy to do it but I charge $80.00 an hour. As I expected, he told me he'd figure it out...
No he won't. I'll just make more money correcting his f-ups.
sh*t...I've just seen my Fury go out the window damnit.
Greg |
DANGER WILL ROBINSON!
I get into this kind of crap all the time. "My nephew knows all about computers" or "you did'nt return my call fast enough so I found this other guy and he said..."
Charge for your time, no freebies, and remind him that a jobber rate would have cost less overall since (I assume) you would not have made a markup over BB PCs.
Oh, and speaking of BB... they are non-commission AFAIK. Or at least they claim to be. Be careful making competative representation to the personality type you've described... he'll shove it right up your a** as soon as he gets a chance.
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"Those countries which lag behind in industry, in the application of mechanics and technical chemistry, in the careful selection and utilization of natural products, where the respect for such activities does not permeate all classes of society, will unfailingly decline in prosperity. They will sink faster when neighbor states, with an energetic exchange between science and industry, go forward with renewed vitality."
-- Baron Alexander von Humboldt: 1769-1859
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:59 am Post subject: |
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I always wondered what the common range of ratios was between salaried and contractor (hourly on contract) rates. For instance, if you were a full-time salaried employee making X what would the normal (industry) range of ratio for contract work be? Is it something like 2-2.5X? Ok, let's also say your normal salaried position is in a low cost of living area and the contract work is in a high cost of living area (but remote work), is there a modifier?
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Heywood Jablome
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 1548
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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Contract AGENCY rates are MUCH higher than the poor shlub earns... typically three to five times. Private placement contract work allows the contractor to earn more, MUCH more, and the contractee to pay much less. The burden (overhead) for those agencies is that high.
_________________
"Those countries which lag behind in industry, in the application of mechanics and technical chemistry, in the careful selection and utilization of natural products, where the respect for such activities does not permeate all classes of society, will unfailingly decline in prosperity. They will sink faster when neighbor states, with an energetic exchange between science and industry, go forward with renewed vitality."
-- Baron Alexander von Humboldt: 1769-1859
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| JustGreg wrote: |
I simply told him that if he wanted me to tie it all together and create a small peer network with shared printer I'd be more than happy to do it but I charge $80.00 an hour. As I expected, he told me he'd figure it out...
No he won't. I'll just make more money correcting his f-ups.
sh*t...I've just seen my Fury go out the window damnit.
Greg |
I just read this thread. Right here (the above post) is where the big DANGER DANGER flags go up. IN his mind you're now a putz that dares to charge $80 an hour for something he can do, right?
I think if he calls again, tell him your rate is $100 an hour to fix f*ck***. That will stop his calls, he'll spend far more elsewhere in the end, and frankly, you don't need customers like this.
I saw this weekly with sound installations 'my friend the DJ can do this, he's a pro', and once in a while in the projector business.
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JustGreg
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3098
Location: Kenosha, WI
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Curt Palme wrote: | | JustGreg wrote: |
I simply told him that if he wanted me to tie it all together and create a small peer network with shared printer I'd be more than happy to do it but I charge $80.00 an hour. As I expected, he told me he'd figure it out...
No he won't. I'll just make more money correcting his f-ups.
sh*t...I've just seen my Fury go out the window damnit.
Greg |
I just read this thread. Right here (the above post) is where the big DANGER DANGER flags go up. IN his mind you're now a putz that dares to charge $80 an hour for something he can do, right?
I think if he calls again, tell him your rate is $100 an hour to fix f*ck***. That will stop his calls, he'll spend far more elsewhere in the end, and frankly, you don't need customers like this.
I saw this weekly with sound installations 'my friend the DJ can do this, he's a pro', and once in a while in the projector business. |
Well, not sure I agree with the putz part...******* maybe, or even dickhead, but putz? That's cold man.
I know what you're saying. I've known this guy for years and he's a great guy, but he's also the kind of person you techs have run into a million times (I'm guilty as sin on this). He's one of those people who shouldn't dip into something that's beyond his skills without a better sense of what's involved and ends up screwing the pooch.
I've bailed him out several times over the years as a salaried employee when I was forced to follow a company etiquette doctrine (translation=No bitch slapping) but what I THINK he's attempting now (small office networking) will definately get me a phone call for help. Matter of fact, I think I'll call him now and see how it's going. 
I'm getting that Fury yet! mua-hahaha
_________________
Greg
"Is it ignorance or apathy? Hey, I don't know and I don't care!" --Jimmy Buffett
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emdawgz1
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 7949
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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I dunno greg. When you "bail him out" what you are doing (imho) is de-valuing your skills and service.
I went thru that a lot in the HT biz. Guys would spend hours bending your ear about what to buy, then go buy it on the internet or @ bb. Then call you w/ questions about setup.
One guy, did this w/ a plasma. He buys it on the web, gets it delivered and then buys the mount from us. He then wants me to come by and show him how to use the mount.
NO DICE.
Theres a reason why BB and the internet is cheaper. They offer ZERO service and support. Dont let this guy cheat ya. If he wants your help charge him.
You wouldn't ask a dentist to look at your teeth during a cocktail party would you??? 
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JustGreg
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3098
Location: Kenosha, WI
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for joining in BigDog.
Oh I'll definately be charging him...that was never in question. I started the thread just to see what you service industry guys charge and a fair and equitable rate. Aside from the immediate gains, future word of mouth jobs are also a consideration. I'm not greedy. Everything I require as far as overhead is, well, in my head so it's pretty much 100% profit unless the job requires me to pick up a few things. I would have preferred to run CAT 5/6 but BB Boy talked him into getting PCI wireless network cards. As far as I'm concerned that presents a weak link in not only security (not a real concern for a limo company) but introduces a cheap piece of hardware to break down later.
Anyway. I hope it comes through. I find small office networking jobs like this enjoyable.
Greg
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Greg
"Is it ignorance or apathy? Hey, I don't know and I don't care!" --Jimmy Buffett
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