CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

garyfritz · Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 12088 Location: Fort Collins, CO

I would eventually like to upgrade the sound in my HT. It's damn good for what it cost me -- it's a $300 refurbed Onkyo HTS760 HTIB that actually sounds pretty decent -- but obviously it could be improved.

I should probably get a much better center some day, but first I'd like to find some good upgrade alternatives for the sub. Right now I have an Onkyo KSW-200: 8" driver, ported enclosure, 150W amp. I can't find any specs for it but I'm sure it drops off quite a bit by 30Hz. (I could probably measure some tones with my Ratshack SPF meter if anybody's curious.)

Unfortunately my budget is currently very tight for HT upgrades. I suspect anything I could justify now (no more than say $200) wouldn't be any improvement from my current sub.

Is there anything in that price range that's worth having? Or should I wait until I can put $500 or more into a decent Velodyne or Paradigm or ? My room is small (~ 12x14) and my wife is not a bass fan Rolling Eyes

so I don't need kilowatts of bone-crunching power, just some nice tight bass as low as possible. Assume I'll be looking for a deal on a used sub. I'm also open to DIY approaches as long as they're not TOO challenging, but I'm not convinced a DIY can beat the price/performance of a good used bargain.

Thanks!
Gary

emdawgz1 · Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 7949

Hunt on "'da bay" for a sunfire true sub or jr.

You should be able to get one in your range...

dc_pilgrim · Joined: 31 Oct 2006 Posts: 225 Location: PA

I have been watching the B-stock at AV123 looking for one of these to go in my den.

http://www.av123.com/products_product.php?section=subwoofers&product=12.1

I should probably just order one, since how much can a b-stock discount on a $200 sub be, but I don't need it until my room is further along, which will be probably August at the earliest. I think on the other site the Dayton and BIC are other noted budget subs. I like the compact size of this one for my den though.

garyfritz · Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 12088 Location: Fort Collins, CO

Dawgz, the Sunfire True woofers are going in the $500-1500 range on ebay. There were a couple of Advent subs with Sunfire drivers but those went for $250 - $275, and then you have to figure in at least $75 shipping... So I don't think those are in my current budget. If I was going to spend that much I'd probably look for a Velodyne.

ecrabb · Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:13 pm Post subject:

Sunfire subs use a huge motor magnet and high amplifier power along with wicked cone excursion to overcome the limitations of a tiny enclosure. They're good subs and work great, especially if you have more money than space. But, you can do as well with a lot less money if you're creative.

If you're on a tight budget and you're willing to try DIY (but don't want to build from scratch), I really think you'd be impressed with this kit Parts Express has on sale right now for $249 w/free shipping:

Dayton DSUBK-15 15" Powered Subwoofer Kit

They also have other amps and drivers, but that kit is such a smokin' deal right now, it would probably by tough to spend much less - unless you already had a sheet of MDF and hardware laying around.

Take a look at used M&K, too. Some of the older stuff is available pretty cheap (and still good stuff). If you watch fleabay, M&K V-75 MkII's will go for around $200-250 from time to time - maybe less if it's cosmetically not too hot. I'm using two of them in my theater because I didn't want to take the time to scratch build right now. Like this (only this one will never sell at that price, not matter how many times the seller re-lists it - $150 is a more realistic expectation in that condition):
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140134591949

SC

ecrabb · Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:18 pm Post subject:

I'd also add that I might flip your statement around completely... I think it's tough to find a bargain cheap enough to beat the price/performance of a good DIY solution... assuming you don't mind doing the work and don't put a price on the time, of course.

I just bought the used M&K's because I don't have the time right now to build the subs I want to build. Whenever I do get the time to build my subs, I have no doubt they'll perform at a level well beyond what I could afford to buy off the shelf - even used, let alone new.

SC

emdawgz1 · Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 7949

If you are gonna diy, look at a Sonotube Sub

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_6_3/diy-11-sonotube-subwoofer-september-99.html#enclosure

I've heard one and it was pretty good.

I thought i saw a true sub jr go for about 350.00 mebbe it was me Embarassed

zaphod · Joined: 16 Jun 2006 Posts: 2002 Location: Cloverdale

i have a mkII tempest 12" driver that i didn't like after building into an 85litre vented box. just not enough punch for me. i've replaced it with a martin logan depth and am really happy.

however... i have this 12" sub that is useless to me. while the box i built is probably stupid to ship, i am rolling around the idea of selling the 12" driver.

garyfritz · Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 12088 Location: Fort Collins, CO

Thanks SC. I looked at a couple of the kits on PE but I don't think I saw that one. I'm wondering how these things sound. Can you get tight, clean bass out of a kit like this, or are you just getting a cheap loud boomy box?

IrritateGuy on this thread prefers the 10" Titanic over the DSUBK-15, but the Titanic kit is $100 more.

The guy in this post also recommends the Titanic 10 kit over the DSUBK-15.

That's about all I could find on the DSUBK-15...

A Hsu STF-2 sold recently for $130 delivered. That was a bargain. Maybe I should just keep an eye out for something like that...

Bighitter · Joined: 15 Dec 2006 Posts: 159

Yeah I would say keep an eye out for used HSU or SVS subs though the only small svs that is really small are the PB10 and SB12+

Mark_A_W · Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:59 am Post subject:

If you own your house, build a cheap Infinite Baffle sub.

A pair of cheap 15" drivers with an Fs of 20-25hz and Q of 0.3-0.6 would be great, 4 would be better.

https://home.comcast.net/~infinitelybaffled/

garyfritz · Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 12088 Location: Fort Collins, CO

IB -- No can do. The HT is already built. It's surrounded by concrete foundation on 2 1/2 walls (front, right, & half of back walls), and concrete floor underneath. Only one wall is really available, and on the other side is my wife's craft room -- I can't cut a hole in the wall and live to tell about it. Similarly my wife's office is above the HT's ceiling.

The only available surface is in the back of the room, under my equipment shelves. There's a small closet (about 120 cu ft) behind the equipment cabinet. I suppose I could conceivably cut a hole in the wall under the cabinet and build a small IB manifold in the closet, but I've only got about 10" under the cabinet. I'm not sure how crucial the size of the manifold opening is. But the IB site says locating them behind the listener is "not recommended."

Plus there's a good-size hole between the closet and the HT -- the equipment shelves go through it so I can access the rear of the equipment from the closet. Maybe I should build a manifold to cover the back of the equipment shelves. Smile

If I built an IB in the 120 cu ft closet, I should keep the Vas under 12. I could use e.g. a single 15" Titanic driver (Vas 7.79). But by the time I buy a $200 driver, a $100 sub amp, and various and sundry materials, I'm getting up into the $400+ range. I could buy a nice well-understood Hsu or SVS for that.

Fun idea, but probably not a good match for my room.

JustGreg · Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Posts: 3098 Location: Kenosha, WI

ecrabb · Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 6:49 pm Post subject:

I've always thought IB was a great idea... for single guys.

Some of us (myself included) go to great lengths and expense to isolate our HT's from the rest of the house so we can watch late at night, after the kids or spouse has gone to bed. Then, there's the IB crowd that in their quest for cheap, powerful bass, opens up the rest of the house to half the bass from the HT... completely the opposite of what I'm trying to accomplish.

Also, depending on your climate and what space you use for the back wave, you may be seriously decreasing the efficiency of your house's insulating envelope. That should be a big concern for people like Mark who have an obsessive concern for an ever-decreasing carbon footprint. Wink

It all depends on your goals... Given mine, I don't have an IB sub in my future at all.

SC

garyfritz · Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 12088 Location: Fort Collins, CO

Yeah, that's an issue I didn't even raise. Too much of the time I have to turn my bass DOWN, as my wife has gone to bed 2 stories up and doesn't like the rumble that makes its way through the ductwork in spite of my efforts to soundproof the room itself. But I can dream... Smile

nettwerkjohn · Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:41 pm Post subject:

sounds like time for a new wife. perhaps dirtyharriet is the one for you...

garyfritz · Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 12088 Location: Fort Collins, CO

Not unless she comes with an unlimited bank account! I couldn't support her habit...

Guess I'll stick with my weenie sub for now, and save up for a used Hsu or SVS or something...

Mark_A_W · Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:44 pm Post subject:

Person99 · Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 4899 Location: Flower Mound, TX

Mark_A_W · Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:03 pm Post subject:

Bollocks - the Bass in the roof cavity is very diffuse - such a large area for the energy to fill, it really isn't an issue.

Is your comment due to personal experience with your IB sub?

And what do you mean by isolated? We have an isolated sound room at work. It's suspended on springs and has triple walls.

Anything else is just playing around.