CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[tschaeikaei]

Hi, can anyone tell me, what the sticker on a barco tube saying 1137437 tells me about that tube?
I know it's out of an 1209s but what is it? LCP or Lug or something else?
Regards, Julian

[Decibel]

1209s usually use P19LPB's

[tschaeikaei]

Ok, thank you. But if i would use those tubes in a Marquee and blend that Marquee with another one with LCPs or LUGs, would it cause any trouble?
Do you have info on those tubes?
Regards, Julian

[tschaeikaei]

Ok, having both projectors here confronts me with another problem.
The Marquee has sweeting bellows. That is repairable.

The other thing is that i want to put the Barco 1209s's tubes into one of my 8500 Ultras to get two 9500 Ultras and blend them.

The P19LPBs are (who did think that) in Barco housings. I'm not gagging for cutting the LDPs out of the housings,
get 3 further Marquee housings and silicone them into there.
There should be an easier way. And because I really like the Scheimpflug on the Barco with those excenters, I'd like to let them in their housings
and put the whole thing (with Marquee magnetics for sure) into a Marquee plastic housing and into the 8500.

What I found out until now is the following:
- Barco bellows never fail ( at least mine are perfect dry and feel ok)
- the LDPs are rotated 180°, meaning i must turn them around to fit the Marquee neckboards
- if i modify the Marquee neckboard's metal box that the NB fits rotated 180°, I won't have to do anything to the tube assembly than making a metal holder at the front. The aluminum angle that holds the tube assembly.

I photographed the tubes like they sit in the projector. LDP (Barco) on the left and LCP (Marquee) on the right.
The 4th pic is borrowed from Curts Advanced procedures, showing the aluminum angle that holds a marquee tube.
It should be possible to attach that thing to a barco tube by drilling sour holes that secure the tube assembly (M6 threads in tube front element) and maybe milling the middle bore to a bigger diameter. I will find out if that is necessary.
On the 3rd picture I've shown what i mean by adapting the front aluminum holder to the Barco tube.
Cut out the C- element- holder diameter into the aluminum, drill 4 holes in the holder (red circles on the right) and screw it to the M6 threads (red circles on the left).

I'd appreciate to hear opinions or experiences on this.

Regards, Julian

[tschaeikaei]

Further on thinking: I've compared the pinout of the LCP and LPB tubes and found out that the LPB shares the same layout
with the LUGs.
In order to get the LPBs working in the Marquee i'd need LUG specified neckboards OR just adapt the G2 cable to pin 6 instead of pin 2 (where LCP and 8" tubes use it).
There are 2 resistors, 2x 330kOhm in series on my (LCP-) neckboards that link pin 6 to pin 7 and to nowhere else.
Pin 7 is not connected on either tubes.
I know I'm not the first guy to use tubes with LUG- pinout in a marquee that was equipped with LCPs before.
Can anyone link or write an 'how to' about this?

I've put one half of the Maquee plastic housings on the barco tube. It fits there nicely. Sure there is no possibility to screw it to the tube aluminum front, but who cares? I could glue the bottom half to the tube front and screw the upper half to it.
There is no need in stability here. Or am I wrong?
There are no cooling fins on the Barco- tubes, maybe because they're cooled through the front aluminum mask they normally sit in. If I attach them to the massive Marquee angled holders (last pic in the post above) and mount a fan onto the plastic housing to cool the tube and neckboard, it should be no problem, right?

The taped copper foil that is used on the marquee for grounding the tube lacks on the Barco tubes. They have a metal claw sitting on the tubes conductive coating. Should I use this for grounding or add some tape with aluminum foil (I'm out of copper foil) for grounding purposes?

LUG/LCP/LPB pinout in the pdf.

Regards, Julian

[Curt Palme]

I'm not sure that anyone has tried this yet, but feel free to do it.

THe Barco LC design is definitely superior to that of the Marquee in several ways.

[Curt Palme]

I'm not sure that anyone has tried this yet, but feel free to do it.

THe Barco LC design is definitely superior to that of the Marquee in several ways.

[tschaeikaei]

Thank you, Curt.

[tschaeikaei]

Ok, I took the Marquees green tube apart, meaning I removed the bellow. Sweating, corroding and leaking here.
The reason I write about it is the following:
I read the how to on the main site: http://www.curtpalme.com/Changing_C_Elements1.shtm
On page 5, the author writes that you should take the C- element out by grabbing it with your fingers or using a small flat screwdriver. That wasn't possible, not even with a screwdriver. It is not mentioned in the instruction that the black edge is glass, i thought it to be a further metal ring. So I damaged the edge of it. Not much, don't worry, it is still usable.
But I would propose that Kal or Curt add this (well known) info to the instructions there.
I found out another way that seems far easier to pull the C-element out.

- Remove all the glycol out of the tube
- turn one of the fill screws back in
- unscrew the black aluminum ring, but don't take the 4 screws out, let them 2 turns in
- apply compressed air through the open fillscrew hole using a small tube.

Be very careful with the pressure and watch the bellow on the sides (that it doesn't grow too much)
Now the C-element should pop out of its seat, pressing itself to the ring and the ring towards the screws.
If every screw is in touch with the ring, put the hose away.
You can now unscrew the ring and easily lift the C-element out.
In my case, it was married with the bellow. I had to cut it and damaged the bellow.
But no problem here, i have to change it either way.

If it is of interest to write about the precedure on the main page, i have a video and some pics about it.

Regards, Julian

[tschaeikaei]

I wrote something about LDP tubes above. Ignore it, i meant LPB.

Now, the mechanical part is done. I've mounted the red and blue P19LPB in the Marquee using the Barco Scheimflug system.
Anyone interested in pictures about the conversion? Tell me.

Now i run into another problem.
I have to use the 8500s neckboards on the LPBs. 180DMB22-->P19LPB03
Pin conversion (G2 on pin 6 instead of pin2 ) shouldn't be a problem. But what about cut off current?
I know it is set on potentiometer R86, but where and what should i measure?
Anode current on the HV lead? What does "KH" in the pinout sheet mean?
Same cut off current for all colours or does blue get more than red? (I guess so)
I've searched for the part number (03-270339-01P) but all i get are 260339-01P.
Does anyone know about the difference? I've found this: https://www.xymox1.com/Projector/Marquee/VideoNeck/00-260339-01P.pdf
It says "NOTE: R100 IS POPULATED IN L10 LOCATION ON 50-2039-01P LAYOUT" R100 is a 0Ohm "resistor" and my board is the 50-2039-01P layout.
But are there more differences in the neckboards? Do i have to desolder the 0Ohm and put an inductor in? Value?

Copied from another thread:


Found at AVS:
Thread

[tschaeikaei]

So i looked into the 1209s neckboards (the projector i got the P19LPB03 tubes from) and there, pin7 is connected directly to ground.
So i guess i should ground pin7 as well, or better use the "at least 1MOhm" from pin7 to...ground?


the neckboards are layed out for 180DMB22 which share the pinout with LCP09 (afaik), G2 on pin2.
So i will use the G2 lead on pin 6 (disconnecting everything else there).

Regards, Julian

[Curt Palme]

I've done this, and have had focusing issues with any tube in a Marquee other than the LCP. I had blooming, and the focus control was way down at one end. Others have reported that as well, although I know later Marquees did use LUG tubes.

The grounding of unused pins is simply to short any internal tube arc to ground, it shouldn't affect performance.

[Curt Palme]

I've done this, and have had focusing issues with any tube in a Marquee other than the LCP. I had blooming, and the focus control was way down at one end. Others have reported that as well, although I know later Marquees did use LUG tubes.

The grounding of unused pins is simply to short any internal tube arc to ground, it shouldn't affect performance.

[tschaeikaei]

In the spec sheet attached to my post 2 above says "use 1MOhm from pin7 to ground(?) for low capacitance performance...
I don't have any SMT devices here so i used the 330kOhm that already was there and removed the 330k from pin6 to ground.
Took the pin6 sleeve on the VB out and simply put the G2 cable directly to the pin (now sticking through the VNB).

After a full reset of the projector setting G2 to around 62-64 (3X LCP installed), focus at 22.
Using a red LPB (with the 8500VNB as described above) with green PT22-19 and blue LCP09, green and blue stay at focus 22 and G2 ~64,
the red LPB works with G2 54 and focus 64.

Someone told me the 8500 and 9500 focus coils are different. All coils on the LPB are from a 180DMB22,
while the LCPs are equipped with the original 9500 coils. So maybe I've learned by doing.
I have o find out if it is correctable using the RGB focus instead of the quick 'n dirty PIC-4 way.
But at least it works.

The best wa to find out about all these issues is if someone could post a schematic of the LUG- type neckboards.
I have the LCP type schematic, but nothing else.

Regards, Julian

[Curt Palme]

I'm not sure if VDC ever released the later board schematics. If someone has them, feel free to post.

[Curt Palme]

I'm not sure if VDC ever released the later board schematics. If someone has them, feel free to post.

[redfox001]

This one? I have another from 2007 this one is 2008.

[Curt Palme]

I think that's as late a schematic as I've ever seen.

[Curt Palme]

I think that's as late a schematic as I've ever seen.

[tschaeikaei]

In that schematic- which is very different to the others i've seen - G2 is not changed electrically for LUGs and other tubes.
The signal is the same, it is just supplied to pin 6 instead of pins (via the optional G2 wire).
Pin 2 is then connected to ground via the same 330k resistor (jumper B installed for LUG).
The old neckboards like mine use 2 330k resistors, one from pin6 to ground, the other from pin7 to ground.
If there is minimal (nA to µA) current flowing through these resistors, it should work.
As i understand it, they are just to discharge build up potentials inside the tube.
But to get back to the initial problem (regarding very different focus settings LCP vs. LPB)
I don't want to use a mixed LCP LPB set in one projector.
One is a standard 9500 Ultra with LCPs, LCP neckboards and focus coils.
The other will be equipped with LPB red and blue and a PT22-30 green. I'll use 8500 neckboards and coils-sets there.
Happy, that the fast test worked out well, but kind of disappointed that they're so different.
Maybe i should try LPB with LCP coils. Or learn more from Barco and how they use the LPBs.

So i think i can let my VNB be as it is now and go on mounting the green PT22-30 into the housing.
BUT: did anyone try about "low capacitance performance?" What does "KH" stand for (looking into 9 Inch Specs.pdf above)

By the way: as some guys including tse tell us about these new style boards: they're not better than the old version.
They even use the HFA 1100 opamps again, like the very first boards did. CLC449 and the 4-pin MRF transistors were obsolete and
they had to get ANY replacement that works. That's what i remember, would have to research it. But doesn't matter to me now
and probably never will.

Regards, Julian

[Hulio]

[tschaeikaei]

Couldn'd be cathode heater. There are 2 other pins called heater.

[barclay66]

[Hulio]

And guys, that was at least an explanation. Cudos barclay66.
Both LCP and LPB have KH grid on pin 7, like LUG's. But without neckboard mod, only the CineMax/Cine 9/BR909 neckboards are designed to take advantage of that.
From 8 inch tubes, also P16LXV are low capacitance ( later models of Cine 8/Onyx ).