CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

dentree · Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:53 am Post subject: Barco Cine 8

Hope someone can throw some light on this disaster!
I have just bought this Cine 8 from a guy who bought it from Curt 3 or 4 years ago, I am told that after a quick check when it arrived, it has been in stored in his spare room, I am led to understand that Curt had been through the unit with a fine tooth comb, then sent it on it's way complete with new guns installed...........anyway to get to the point I got this machine, put it up on the ceiling and with a manual in hand proceeded to follow the instructions to install and set it up, so far so good... did the optical and physical alignment, still ok had a look at the green LEDS all green, all ok.......then I thought that I could detect a burning smell, not much but enough to be aware of it, everything still functioning, then after a couple of minutes or so I heard a sharp 'crack' so I shut the machine down immediately, had a look inside, no visible indicators of anything amiss, so l turned it back on, all LEDS green however the three G2 LEDS were lit (previously they were not lit) the situation currently is that the tubes are alive (the heaters are on) but there is NO output from the guns at all, they are completely dark, as a result of that of course there is no image on screen.
While the machine was disconnected I took each board out in turn and examined them on both sides looking for any telltale signs of damage, but everything looks OK no sign of anything physically damaged/burnt/melted etc, so now I am hoping that there is someone out there who might have the vaguest notion of what might have happened, and what I might be able to turn my attention to, to investigate this mystery further, I shall watch with interest to see if there is saviour out there to help me.
Many thanks in advance
Trevor

Within 1/2 hour of writing this, I omitted to say that when I heard the sharp 'crack' I was standing just below the rear of the unit at the side where the power supply is when I heard it, I have since had a look in that area and have noticed looking through the rear grill 2 red LED's glowing, now as I also have a Graphics 808 I turned that on and there are no LED's glowing in that area, the area I speak of is the Grey 'L' shaped plate in the corner of the unit, I have taken it out and tested the fuse which is on the board it is OK, so I am hoping that this discovery narrows it down a bit.

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:00 pm Post subject:

The set is in HV shutdown mode, as indicated by those two red LEDs on the EHT board. THe CRACK was arcing of the high voltage, which triggered the shutdown. It could be a bad HV splitter, bad quadrupler, or worst case a snapped tube neck (unlikely), or a bad tube HV lead.

Pull the 3 red HV wires going to the tubes from the HV splitter, but make sure you leave the red wire coming from the quadrupler in place. Fire the set up, and see if the red lights stay off. If so, then there's an issue with a tube/lead. Reconnect the red HV leads going to the tubes one at a time, and see if you can get two of the three tubes to work. If you get no pix with one of the tubes connected, that's the tube with the issue.

if the red lights still stay on with the tube HV leads disconnected, either the quad or splitter is bad. There's no telling which one it is, you'd either need to find replacements (I have them) to try, or send me yours for testing.

Let me know.

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:00 pm Post subject:

The set is in HV shutdown mode, as indicated by those two red LEDs on the EHT board. THe CRACK was arcing of the high voltage, which triggered the shutdown. It could be a bad HV splitter, bad quadrupler, or worst case a snapped tube neck (unlikely), or a bad tube HV lead.

Pull the 3 red HV wires going to the tubes from the HV splitter, but make sure you leave the red wire coming from the quadrupler in place. Fire the set up, and see if the red lights stay off. If so, then there's an issue with a tube/lead. Reconnect the red HV leads going to the tubes one at a time, and see if you can get two of the three tubes to work. If you get no pix with one of the tubes connected, that's the tube with the issue.

if the red lights still stay on with the tube HV leads disconnected, either the quad or splitter is bad. There's no telling which one it is, you'd either need to find replacements (I have them) to try, or send me yours for testing.

Let me know.

dentree · Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:17 am Post subject: Barco Cine 8

Many thanks for your extremely prompt reply, I have followed your instructions and these are the results

HV Splitter check

3 tube wires disconnected HV shutdown LED ON

1 wire connected (no picture) LED on HV ON

2 wires connected as above

3 wires connected as above

The LED in your photo titled EHT BOARD.
The HV shutdown LED is ON

The LED located next to the RED square Device (see your photo NEW STYLE HT BOARD)
The LED is located directly below the large PALE BLUE device, this LED is ON.

Apart from your thoughts based on these results/observations, the 2 questions I now have are these,

1 Thee 808 Graphics I have has the EHT board marked as OLD STYLE in your photos
are the OLD and the NEW style compatible (to swap and try?)

2 Is the HV SPLITTER on the 808 the same as the one on the CINE 8 ?

Are these 2 ideas feasable r are they a NO...NO ?

Thanks Curt[/u]

Francisco · Joined: 05 Apr 2007 Posts: 305 Location: The Netherlands

1)

new frame set= new quad + new EHT + any splitter (OK)
new frame set= old quad + new EHT + any splitter (OK)
new frame set= old quad + old EHT + any splitter (JUMPER)
new frame set= new quad + old EHT + any splitter (NEVER)

old frame set= new quad + new EHT + any splitter (JUMPER)
old frame set= old quad + new EHT + any splitter (JUMPER)
old frame set= old quad + old EHT + any splitter (OK)
old frame set= new quad + old EHT + any splitter (NEVER)

2)

Yes as you can see above

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:51 pm Post subject:

Splitters are interchangable between any projector as Francisco says above.

dentree · Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:40 pm Post subject:

Thanks for that, however I do not really understand what Francisco is telling me, I do not understand what is meant by
New frame set.....Old frame set,
and I do not know anything about the jumpers referred to.
To be on the safe side I need some further clarification in regard to what I have on hand here and what can be mixed and matched safely
and what cannot

Obviously at this stage I have a CINE 8 with suspect HV SPLITTER
QUADROUPLER THESE WE WILL CALL NEW STYLE
EHT
Then I have the 808 GRAPHICS with known GOOD components THESE WE WILL CALL OLD STYLE

The GRAPHICS has a manufacture date of October 1995
The CINE 8 has a manufacture date of November 2001

I only want to test this method to pin this issue down, then I will know exactly what I need to get from Curt as permanent replacements

km987654 · Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:46 am Post subject:

dentree · Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:34 am Post subject: Barco Cine 8

Thanks so much for the reply, however I'm just not getting it!
I will not do anything until I have a crystal clear picture in my mind as to what I am doing......so if I re- frame my questions perhaps you can make it abundantly clear as to what I do.

1 I have the older 808 graphics which is fully functioning

2 The Cine 8 has possibly suspect EHT and/or possibly QUADRUPLER (I will leave out of the equation the SPLITTER as they are a common component,
So now we come to the possible combinations/scenarios

A OLD QUADRUPLER/OLD EHT

B OLD EHT/NEW QUADRUPLER

C NEW QUADRUPLER/OLD EHT

I cannot think of any other combinations at present, but if one of these combinations work wich combination (if any) require a jumper?

If a jumper is required to any of the combinations which would work in the set,

1 where and how is the jumper applied, and 2 if one of these combinations requires the removal of the QUAD how is it accessed for removal, I am assuming that the QUAD is the grey box behind the EHT BOARD

Given that the EHT in the CINE has both RED LED's ON I assume that this board IS faulty, I only assume that because I do not know where in the chain the EHT is seen, likewise I do not know where the QUADRUPLER comes in the chain either.

Talk about Barco's for dummies!! but I am trying to understand what is/might be going on here

Thanks for your patience

km987654 · Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:40 am Post subject: Re: Barco Cine 8

dentree · Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:23 am Post subject: Barco Cine 8

OK,

The part numbers on the CINE 8 are as follows

QUADRUPLER (2 sets of numbers on 2 separate stickers) 1180057 and 3014

The EHT number is 1163005

The part numbers from the BG808 are as follows

Old EHT 1073177

Old QUAD 102899

Just out of curiosity I put the EHT (from the CINE 8 into the BG 808 and it worked in as much as it displayed an image on the tubes and there was NO red LED's lit on the EHT board, which suggests to me that the EHT is OK, that then would leave the QUADRUPLER as as the next suspect on the list.....would you agree with that line of thought?

And the next move is.............??

cosaw · Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:48 am Post subject:

Pretty sure those aren't the part numbers. They'll be the stickers which seem to identify if all the parts are from the same or different machines.

The part numbers are usually in the format: R76**** or R76*****.

Don't want to confuse the matter because some of this information has already been covered but if you look at the last page of this pdf document you'll see some example part numbers: http://www.curtpalme.com/docs/BarcoServiceBulletin_R762716_New_EHT.pdf

On the EHT board (off memory) the part number is either on the grey connector at the bottom or just above it on the board and starting with a R76. The number on the quadrupler is usually printed on it somewhere in black rather than on a sticker and again starting with a R76.

Yes, from what you are saying the EHT board sounds like it's OK if it's compatible with the machine you tried it in.

Edit: I put the R in front of the serial numbers.

dentree · Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:07 am Post subject: Barco Cine 8

Update on part numbers:-

QUADRUPLER R762717

EHT R762716

Do these numbers sound right?

Thank you

cosaw · Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:56 am Post subject:

Yes those will be the part numbers. It's worth studying the pdf document I pointed to so you can verify the numbers for yourself.

Here is my very recent and very similar experience: https://www.curtpalme.com/forum_archived/viewtopic.php@t=36753.html

What I also learned from that thread is that the quadruplers seem pretty much interchangeable too. What makes them different is the direction by which the HV leads leave the quadrupler block. This means that you may have to find a different method to attach a quad with a different part number to your chassi but the electrical connections are the same. Got my 808 on the floor at the moment and the quad is just sat loose in the machine for the exact same reason as just described.

Hope this helps.

dentree · Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 1:08 pm Post subject: Barco Cine 8

A bit more investigation going on here, I have removed the QUAD (that is the big gray brick in the rear corner...yes)
Anyway there was only one bolt holding it onto the case at the bottom center, there are 2 bolts sticking out of the other end of the Quad but no nuts attached, now further to that looking at the Quad resin side facing, 2 red wires nearest you, 4 wires with plug farthest away, the silver bar across the centre, right hand side and just around the corner where the silver plate fits into the gray body of the device there are like welding "slag" bubbles and quite black, also it smells just like I remember it from my first post, it hasn't burnt a hole in the casing but it most have generated a lot of heat as it has boiled and bubbled that corner, I have taken a picture of it but do not know how to get it into this post, will investigate when I have finished writing this.

The other thing wanted point out and ask about, firstly when I took out the bottom bolt (I forgot to mention that the projector IS on the ceiling) a huge 3/8 inch nut fell out the case presumably as a stand off spacer between the Quad and the case seems a bit of a makeshift job to me.
I also assume that even taking into account the "nut" the Quad is not intended to be pyhsically isolated from the chassis

The next thing I want ask is, I have also a BG801 would the Quad in that be compatible with the obviously "duff" one I have in my hand, I could take one out of the BG 808, but i would like to keep that one operational, whereas the BG801 although in perfect working order is no longer being used, i will now endeavor to get the pic on here.

Again, thanks for your time
[/img]

dentree · Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 1:24 pm Post subject: Barco Cine 8

Quadrupler cine 8

cosaw · Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 1:36 pm Post subject:

From all you say it sounds like this is not the original quadrupler anyway. It sounds like what I was describing: the quad you've got was not from an 808 otherwise the bolt ends out of the silver bar would have had nuts on and the 3/8" spacer bolt would not have been there. The original quad would have had the red wires exit from the top corner of the front of the block heading towards the front of the projector. What you've probably got is the red wires exiting to the side in line with the bolts - am I right?

Compare all the quads from your different machines and you may see how the exiting of the red wires differs and how that affects how they fit to the chassi. As far as I understood from Curt, in the thread I gave a link to in my last post, the exiting of the red wires is the only thing which really affects compatibility of the quadrupler. So as far as I have understood the quad from your BG801 should do, however it may not be physically compatible as I think on the 801 the wires will come out sideways in line with the bolts. You'll probably find that the layout of the red wires on your burnt quad is the same as those from the 801 quad (if the 801 quad is the correct one).

For posting pictures I upload the picture to some web space of mine and then embed the link in the post using the img tags. Place the tags like this: [img][/img] and then paste your link inbetween like this: [img]your link[/img].

dentree · Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 1:45 pm Post subject: Barco Cine 8

This the damaged ones wire configuration

dentree · Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 1:51 pm Post subject: Barco Cine 8

another angle showing wiring leaving the case

cosaw · Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:18 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the pictures.

Leaves me scratching my head a bit because it looks from your pictures that the wires don't exit sideways and therefore you shouldn't need that spacer bolt that was there.

Need someone elses input on the black bubbles, maybe it's a point of arcing to the chassi?

Edit: The dead quadrupler I took from my Graphics 808 is the same serial number and wire layout as yours. Why yours wasn't fastened in properly I don't know. I can only guess it was a replacement but not fitted properly.