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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:08 pm Post subject: VideoEQ is BACK !! new model |
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http://videoeq.com
VideoEQ Mx
VideoEq is an innovative external video color processor that allows you to easily calibrate a video display’s gamma, white balance and color gamut for up to four different source and viewing conditions to give you screening room color fidelity at an affordable price.
Getting color correction right is a challenging balance between electronics, color science, and the calibration interface. Most manufacturers get the electronics right, a few manufacturers get the color science right, but almost none get the calibration interface right. This means that even if you install video displays and projectors that are engineered correctly and are technically capable of delivering accurate color, the available controls make the task of precise color calibration all but impossible.
VideoEq adds all these missing controls to your video path and enables you to calibrate your display precisely towards any standard – just the way the movie director intended the movie to be viewed.
VideoEq Mx builds on top of the familiar VideoEq PRO line adding enhanced processing accuracy and fine tuning capabilities. VideoEq Mx has preset settings for four different scenarios and further adds six (6) completely customizable profiles for calibration in any environment or for any time of day. The selection of any of these ten profiles can be automated using the control IR interface or the USB interface.
VideoEq Mx is very easy to setup. You will connect the input and the output HDMI/DVI cables, the power supply (included) and you are ready to go. For further control, USB port is included that is used for firmware upgrades as well as calibration software from X-Vue, LLC (see the download page) as well as 3rd party industry standard software such as Calman(tm) 4/5 from Spectracal Inc. With a 3rd party software VideoEq Mx can be used for smooth fully automated calibration flow.
Powerful enhanced industry proven CMS multi-axis color control
Comprehensive adjustments for up to four sources and conditions
4 integrated presets for off-the-shelf-use
Complete 12-bit fully linear CMS processing
1024 point RGB gamma/grayscale correction
Simple to use digital video in, digital video out
Universal remote control with electrical 1/8″ IR jack
Easy USB calibration interface for various calibration software
Specifications
Six programmable 1024 point luminance and RGB correction tables
Six full controllable CMS tables
Four preset tables for off-the-shelf use for typical viewing conditions.
IR remote connection for control and automation
USB interface for easy, reliable setup
Simple HDMI / DVI-In to HDMI / DVI -Out configuration
Simple push-button control for manual operation
Industry proven color lookup table technology
Proprietary multi-axis linear Color Management System
HDMI 1.4a digital video support with pixel clocks up to 225 MHz
Video resolutions from 480i to 1080p60, US / EURO modes
Supports all 3D modes and 3D calibration flow
PC resolutions up to 1920×1200@60Hz
RGB, YCbCr 4:4:4 and YCbCr 4:2:2 supported
Powerful GUI based control for calibration
Nashou
_________________ Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
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thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011 Posts: 1311 Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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It's strange why CMS is not available by software by now, it's 2014.
Last edited by thewolfman on Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:24 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY
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thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011 Posts: 1311 Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 12:09 am Post subject: |
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So you still need a VP before or after? I thought it was a VP on its own. What's it's good for then?
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 12:26 am Post subject: |
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| thewolfman wrote: | | So you still need a VP before or after? I thought it was a VP on its own. What's it's good for then? |
It is a CMS tool for those who have VP's that do not have CMS in them like the DVDO VP 50 pro, Crysalio , etc, or for displays that do not have CMS in them or even after a HTPC for CMS.
Much less expensive than a Lumagen. if you do not use a VP then this can get you nice color calibration, greyscale and gamma at 21 points.
Nashou
_________________ Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011 Posts: 1311 Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 12:31 am Post subject: |
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Cool. I should have read it through more carefully.. but in end it does suit my needs. Any of those cheaper ones, that dose 817p@72Hz, + this one, is a must for me now. I really need CMS as cheap as it gets.
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Rolls-Royce
Joined: 30 Sep 2007 Posts: 288 Location: Victorville, CA
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2014 12:01 am Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | | thewolfman wrote: | | So you still need a VP before or after? I thought it was a VP on its own. What's it's good for then? |
It is a CMS tool for those who have VP's that do not have CMS in them like the DVDO VP 50 pro, Crysalio , etc, or for displays that do not have CMS in them or even after a HTPC for CMS.
Much less expensive than a Lumagen. if you do not use a VP then this can get you nice color calibration, greyscale and gamma at 21 points.
Nashou |
Of course, it does not do the 3D cube CMS LUTs that the Lumagen does. Nor the other image processing of the Lumagen. But it can do a great job nonetheless (I own the previous-gen VideoEQ Pro)!
_________________ ....Royce....
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010 Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Rolls-Royce wrote: | | Nashou66 wrote: | | thewolfman wrote: | | So you still need a VP before or after? I thought it was a VP on its own. What's it's good for then? |
It is a CMS tool for those who have VP's that do not have CMS in them like the DVDO VP 50 pro, Crysalio , etc, or for displays that do not have CMS in them or even after a HTPC for CMS.
Much less expensive than a Lumagen. if you do not use a VP then this can get you nice color calibration, greyscale and gamma at 21 points.
Nashou |
Of course, it does not do the 3D cube CMS LUTs that the Lumagen does. Nor the other image processing of the Lumagen. But it can do a great job nonetheless (I own the previous-gen VideoEQ Pro)! |
I'm surprised that a 3D LUT capability wasn't included in this version - back when the VEQPro was new, 6-point correction was pretty standard in the consumer VP world. Now even the original Radiance models can support 5x5x5 LUTs (125-point), and the new 21XX models do 19x19x19! Both ChromaPure and CalMAN support LUTs of this size, so it's not like Video Forge would have to coax them to add new capabilities just for their new box.
I definitely agree that this is a great solution for those lacking CMS controls on their display - especially if they don't want to drop thousands of dollars - but the gamut management portion is definitely outdated by today's standards.
_________________
| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 5643 Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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3D or cube is not needed with a CRT. I still agree that it is conspicuously absent and has less of an appeal for digital owners.
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010 Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Spanky Ham wrote: | | 3D or cube is not needed with a CRT. I still agree that it is conspicuously absent and has less of an appeal for digital owners. |
Why is it not needed with a CRT?
_________________
| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
SC |
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ecrabb Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 15909 Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| HogPilot wrote: | | Spanky Ham wrote: | | 3D or cube is not needed with a CRT. I still agree that it is conspicuously absent and has less of an appeal for digital owners. |
Why is it not needed with a CRT? |
Isn't it because the CRT primaries are very close to the Rec. 709 color space primaries? Maybe it would be more accurate to say "3D or cube is much less necessary with CRT than it is with most digital projectors.
SC
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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I think it is that the way phosphor behaves, the colors in between the Primary colors , secondary colors and White fall into their proper location on the CIE graph closer than they do with DIgital technologies. Or in other words. Digital's need more help with those points than CRT's do. CRT's color's have a natural smoother transition along those points once the Primaries and secondaries are locked in.
nashou
_________________ Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 5643 Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 2:33 am Post subject: |
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I think Nash has got it. Craig either told me in person or on the forum last year what the reason is.
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 Posts: 4269 Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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You only need a 6-pont CMS on a CRT because of the natural emission characteristics of the phosphors. This would be true for any RGB CRT with direct pass through (like pretty much every front projection CRT). The digital signal is converted to RGB through a known voltage matrix computation (output). When the D goes to A, the output of the DAC is predictable and the response of the phosphors conforms to SMTPE standards (gross over simplification, but adequate). Because of this, once you set the primary colors at 100% saturation the colors at any other stimulus or level of saturation will be correct as well.
With a digital projector, the digital signal must be decoded to colors inside the display device's "black box." Since there is not simply a direct DA conversion to RGB, the digital display must convert the digital video signal to a color image. How this conversion takes place and under what "rules" is questionable. It is very possible for the manufacturers of digital displays to make them respond in ways similar to CRT, but most manufactures really mess this up. In fact, the only manufacturers that get it right that I work with are DPI, Sim2, and Christie.
For example, if the digital signal calls for 50% magenta, than with CRT this will be converted DA and the output will be correct. Where the CRT might have problems is that the primary red is over saturated so the projector will create a magenta with too much red. What the CMS can then do is add more blue or add green to the magenta to make the output conform to whatever standard you are using (most likely Rec 709).
On a digital the same 50% magenta is left up to the black box to interpret. Maybe you calibrate and get this 50% magenta perfect, but then you may find that all other levels of magenta are not properly calibrated. This is because the black box is not using a constant conversion that is variable with respect to saturation and stimulus levels. This is why a 125-point CMS or higher is beneficial on a digital projector. The 125-point CMS gives enough finite points to correct a very wonky black box that has nonlinear output characteristics.
Really on CRT there is limited need for a CMS. With a 9" LC projector with correct celements only the red needs to be corrected. On 8" sets with color corrected lenses all six points are required because every color except blue is over saturated.
No time to proof read, gotta go...
craigr
_________________ JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010 Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 8:41 am Post subject: |
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Interesting, thanks for the great explanations!
_________________
| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
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ConnecTED
Joined: 02 Jun 2014 Posts: 3 Location: Athens, Greece
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| HogPilot wrote: | | Rolls-Royce wrote: | | Nashou66 wrote: | | thewolfman wrote: | | So you still need a VP before or after? I thought it was a VP on its own. What's it's good for then? |
It is a CMS tool for those who have VP's that do not have CMS in them like the DVDO VP 50 pro, Crysalio , etc, or for displays that do not have CMS in them or even after a HTPC for CMS.
Much less expensive than a Lumagen. if you do not use a VP then this can get you nice color calibration, greyscale and gamma at 21 points.
Nashou |
Of course, it does not do the 3D Cube CMS LUTs that the Lumagen does. Nor the other image processing of the Lumagen. But it can do a great job nonetheless (I own the previous-gen VideoEQ Pro)! |
I'm surprised that a 3D LUT capability wasn't included in this version - back when the VEQPro was new, 6-point correction was pretty standard in the consumer VP world. Now even the original Radiance models can support 5x5x5 LUTs (125-point), and the new 21XX models do 19x19x19! Both ChromaPure and CalMAN support LUTs of this size, so it's not like Video Forge would have to coax them to add new capabilities just for their new box.
I definitely agree that this is a great solution for those lacking CMS controls on their display - especially if they don't want to drop thousands of dollars - but the gamut management portion is definitely outdated by today's standards. |
Hi, Lumagen Radiance 21xx Series Video Processors 3D LUT Table size will be 17x17x17 (4913 point) with up to 2160p60 output.
This will be available in the future via downloadable update, once Lumagen will have fully optimised their 4K processing pipeline.
Currently 3D LUT table size of 21xx is 9x9x9 and it's output @ 2160p24.
These 21xx units features a much faster and larger FPGA along with more memory compared to current 20xx line.
I have created the most complete 3D LUT Boxes / Video Processors Comparison Chart with all available solutions that available at consumer/professional market here: http://www.displaycalibrations.com/lut_boxes_comparisons.html
I have designed a Cube Resolution Comparison Guide to visualize the difference of calibrated color points precision over various cube resolution sizes; presentation from normal 1D LUT with 1-Point with 6-Axis CMS up to 5/9/17/21-Point Cube:
http://www.displaycalibrations.com/cube_comparisons.html
The only released software that has already include the Direct Upload feature for the 17-Point Cube cLUT table for the Lumagen 21xx Series of Video Processors is the LightSpace CMS 6.6.0.1901
_________________ Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1Display PRO, Chroma 5 PRO
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ConnecTED
Joined: 02 Jun 2014 Posts: 3 Location: Athens, Greece
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:19 pm Post subject: Re: VideoEQ is BACK !! new model |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | http://videoeq.com
VideoEQ Mx
VideoEq is an innovative external video color processor that allows you to easily calibrate a video display’s gamma, white balance and color gamut for up to four different source and viewing conditions to give you screening room color fidelity at an affordable price. |
This hardware is not officially supported or tested by SpectraCAL in case someone want to perform an AutoCAL, so it has to do it's calibration manually.
VideoEQ MX has a 10-Bit 1D Table for Grayscale, you can enter manually any control point at whatever grayscale step between 0-1023 but you can't do manually more than more than 239 Steps (16-254) with a custom calibration disk since the signal in blu-ray disks is 8bit.
For example Lumagen has also 10-bit 1D (Grayscale) Table (0-1023) but it can store corrections for Video TV-Legal (64-940).
I was using VideoEQ back in 2010 with very good results for Normal 1D-LUT Grayscale + 6-Axis CMS (1-Point per RGBCMY).
There's no need to calibrate with more than 21-Point Grayscale, so you have in total 21+6 = 27 Colors Points in total.
VideoEQ or VideoMX is not a 3D LUT Holder Device, it's an old error in manual description the old manual had also that wrong explanation.
It has 6-Axis Control of RGBCMY, so you can say that you can move these 6 only color points in 3D Space, not to calibrate multiple points per axis, like eeColor (65-Point), Lumagen Radiance (5-Point), Lumagen Radiance 2xxx/21xx (9-Point).
Imagine that you have a Display with 21-Point Grayscale and Hue/Saturation/Lightness controls for RGBCMY, these are the same controls like VideoEQ has. the difference is that the TV has +-20 range to adjust for each any of the above controls (you can remove 1 or add 1) while the Video EQ has more accurate controls with 0.1 range (If you want to reduce slightly the Luminance - from 100 you can go to 99.9 - while using the internal display controls you can go from 100 to 99.
_________________ Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1Display PRO, Chroma 5 PRO
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robarivas
Joined: 13 Nov 2014 Posts: 1
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 2:26 am Post subject: |
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So if my TV produces too low of gamma (i.e., too bright) because its blue control (across all 10 IREs by the way) doesn't go low enough will this box overcome that? In other words will this box effectively expand my control range? Or does it simply effectively expand the number of IRE steps?
I hope my question makes sense.
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thepiecesfit
Joined: 28 Nov 2014 Posts: 7
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| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| robarivas wrote: | So if my TV produces too low of gamma (i.e., too bright) because its blue control (across all 10 IREs by the way) doesn't go low enough will this box overcome that? In other words will this box effectively expand my control range? Or does it simply effectively expand the number of IRE steps?
I hope my question makes sense. |
Yes it will do exactly that. You can control the grayscale over 1024 points. Meaning you can adjust 10% , without affecting the others. My plasma 2 point control was terrible. I picked up one of these devices and neutralized the RGB IRE across 10-100 something my tv could not accomplish without affecting other IRE's. It also features a CMS which allows the Hue/Saturation/Brightness control if your TV doesnt have a CMS.
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