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smhagen
Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:34 pm Post subject: No Signal thru FIOS DVR with Darbee inline |
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OK, just joined per a AVS Friend's suggestion.
I just got my Darbee. I have it in between the Onkyo HDMI "out" and my RS4910. I get no signal, or broken up signal off the Fios DVR going thru the Onkyo. If I run the Fios DVR box directly to the Darbee -> PJ it works fine. All my other inputs switched thru the Onkyo work with Darbee inline. I.E. Bluray, PC, Game, Roku.
I have an Onkyo TX-NR808. Since I have had this for a few years, I also did a complete new Firmware update hoping this would solve the issue. No such luck.
If I remove the Darbee then all works as normal (Fios). Once the Darbee goes inline, I cannot get the Fios signal, just says "no signal"
I find this real strange, since all components seem to work as they should it certain scenarios. It is like the Onkyo cannot process the Darbee signal or something. So if anyone has heard of this issue, or a "fix", I would appreciate it.
Stu
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BGSPCS
Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 115
Location: Pottstown, PA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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Have you tried a different HDMI cable from the CATV box to the Onkyo? I would also make sure that the Onkyo isn't upscaling the Cable box resolution, also try any manual resolution settings from the cable box(lock it to 720p or 480i). I've seen bad cables perform poorly at high resolutions.
_________________
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Brad S
Pottstown PA
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Stu,
Welcome to the forum!
Brad's suggestions of trying an alternate cable, and making sure the Onkyo isn't doing anything to the Fios signal are both fine. But, when that doesn't work, you can try my suggestion.
Run, don't walk over to ebay or Amazon and buy one of these HDMI splitters:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271267745954
That ebay one is the one I bought, but I've heard from a trusted source who had issues similar to mine, that a similarly shady-looking one on Amazon accomplished the same magic.
You can read about my travails in the $25 stripper thread, here:
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=395706#395706
The next page of that thread has the post I made as one of the happiest people on the planet. It was right up there with the day my kids were born. OK, I'm exaggerating. A little. The executive summary is that a $20 HDMI splitter from China solved the TRAIN WRECK of HDMI problems I was having with my Onkyo/Integra-and-JVC signal chain. I can't say for certain whether it will solve your problem, but for less than $20, if you're even remotely as frustrated as I was, it will be worth every penny and then some.
Good luck! HDMI sucks!
SC
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smhagen
Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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I will try your HDMI splitter...
But FWIW, I switched to going out of the Fios box Component and IN to the Onkyo as Component, and that did indeed fix the problem. My AVS guru buddies state I lose Lossless, but I am not sure about Video Quality. Reading all about Component and HDMI is an open debate. But most say HDMI does a better video job.
Today I will receive an inline HDMI amplifier that I am going to test and tomorrow I get am getting a new Fios Box that supposedly is better and supports PS3 users. Not that this is the issue, but maybe it might solve the HDMI issue as this is a newer model box. I called Onkyo and there last Firmware was Mid 2012 and they have not had any complaints about this type of issue. Which tells me it is something to do with the Fios box and not how the Onkyo processes it.
Thanks, and I will update here when I test all of this.
Stu
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| smhagen wrote: | | But FWIW, I switched to going out of the Fios box Component and IN to the Onkyo as Component, and that did indeed fix the problem. My AVS guru buddies state I lose Lossless, but I am not sure about Video Quality. |
That sounds like a good interim solution at least. You will lose some video quality since instead of being all digital, there's an extra D/A and A/D conversion in there. But, considering that cable - even FiOS - doesn't start out that great to begin with, I'd guess it's still pretty good overall.
To what lossless do they refer? Lossless audio, like on Blu-ray? I've never heard of lossless audio anywhere but on BD. Even if FiOS does offer it (which would surprise me very much), it would probably only be on a few PPV channels.
SC
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smhagen
Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | | smhagen wrote: | | But FWIW, I switched to going out of the Fios box Component and IN to the Onkyo as Component, and that did indeed fix the problem. My AVS guru buddies state I lose Lossless, but I am not sure about Video Quality. |
That sounds like a good interim solution at least. You will lose some video quality since instead of being all digital, there's an extra D/A and A/D conversion in there. But, considering that cable - even FiOS - doesn't start out that great to begin with, I'd guess it's still pretty good overall.
To what lossless do they refer? Lossless audio, like on Blu-ray? I've never heard of lossless audio anywhere but on BD. Even if FiOS does offer it (which would surprise me very much), it would probably only be on a few PPV channels.
SC |
Eek..got me. His reply to me just stated that I would lose this Lossless audio capability going component. Maybe he forgot that this "issue" was only Fios (TV) whereas I have no issues on my LG player staying HDMI via Darbee.
At one time I thought it might be my 50' HDMI cable from the RS4910 to the Onkyo, but evidently it seems OK. But, for grins, I just got my HDMI amplifier from monoprice and I am going to stuff that into the back of the RS4910 then the HDMI long run tip into that. Just in case my crap for eyes can notice anything.
I am new to all of this. My buddies who all are up in the xx,xxx AVS posts finally convince me to go PJ. So I am still tinkering. I do have a Stewart 110" Motorized screen that is new as well as the RS4910. I am liking all of this so far. Now they want me to do "room" sound treatments....where does it end!
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| smhagen wrote: | | At one time I thought it might be my 50' HDMI cable from the RS4910 to the Onkyo, but evidently it seems OK. But, for grins, I just got my HDMI amplifier from monoprice and I am going to stuff that into the back of the RS4910 then the HDMI long run tip into that. Just in case my crap for eyes can notice anything. |
You probably meant it this way, but you'd want your HDMI amp at the source end of the long run to the projector. (I'm assuming your source equipment is all well away from your projector). So, it would go:
Source -- HDMI cable --> Onkyo --> HDMI cable --> Darbee --> HDMI cable -- > HDMI amp --> Long HDMI cable --> Projector
If it still isn't working, and you get the splitter, it'll be:
Source -- HDMI cable --> Onkyo --> HDMI cable --> Darbee --> HDMI cable -- > HDMI splitter --> Long HDMI cable --> Projector
| smhagen wrote: | | I am new to all of this. My buddies who all are up in the xx,xxx AVS posts finally convince me to go PJ. So I am still tinkering. I do have a Stewart 110" Motorized screen that is new as well as the RS4910. I am liking all of this so far. Now they want me to do "room" sound treatments....where does it end! |
Front projection is awesome. I can't imagine ever NOT having one at this point. To me, front projection is what makes it "home theater"; everything else just watching a big TV.
As for where it ends, only where you decide it ends. Like most hobbies, you can do as much or as little as makes you happy!
Many of us here on this forum are also on AVS, some with the same handle, or some are different. Some people here are "fugitives" from AVS; they were banned when there was some really overbearing moderation five or six years ago and they've never returned. Personally, I'm on this site a lot, and AVS less so. When I am, it's either for work, or because of a couple of threads I follow. I just looked and I joined AVS going on 12 years ago.  I lurked a year or two before that, then signed up to post in the CRT forum to ask questions when I bought my first projector.
Cheers,
SC
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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One other thing smhagen, how long are your HDMI cables? We've run into issues her with too short a cable in between some sources. e.g 3 foot cables sometimes won't work but 6 or 12 foot will. Something to look at.
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Tech support for nothing
CRT.
HD done right!
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smhagen
Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| AnalogRocks wrote: | | One other thing smhagen, how long are your HDMI cables? We've run into issues here with too short a cable in between some sources. e.g 3 foot cables sometimes won't work but 6 or 12 foot will. Something to look at. |
ha...interesting bit of info here. Who'd a thought this!. Well damn you lol! I also just received today RedMeer 3' HDMI cables to "clean" up my rats nest: http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10255&cs_id=1025503&p_id=10207&seq=1&format=2&utm_expid=58369800-11.R-enhtUGRrSdHz5vzpVS2g.0&utm_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.monoprice.com%2FSearch%3Fcp_id%3D10240%26cs_id%3D1025503%26keyword%3DHDMI%2520Cables
If I have issues with these 3' ones then I will know why. Right now, I have nothing less than 6' but there so damn large in diameter.
I have all equipment on a 24"d x 24"w x 72" long table Against the wall, under the screen.
I have in this equip rack: Onkyo, LG BluRay (dual player), PC, HD VCR, SW Amp, Fois Box. and center channel speaker.
I have HDMI cables that go: (Fios ->Onkyo, BD->Onkyo, FIOS ->Onkyo PC-> Onkyo THEN I have Onkyo out to Darbee in Darebee Out -> RS4910), The "OUT" of the Darbee to the RS4910 is approx 50' until it reaches the PJ.
Component cables HD VCR->Onkyo (This is too old and has no HDMI)
So I do have my Darbee at the beginning of the long HDMI run to the PJ. But I guess your telling to put the in line HDMI amplifier at the "source" (In the Darbee "out") AS opposed to the PJ input side.
Stu
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smhagen
Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:10 am Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: |
Source -- HDMI cable --> Onkyo --> HDMI cable --> Darbee --> HDMI cable -- > HDMI amp --> Long HDMI cable --> Projector
If it still isn't working, and you get the splitter, it'll be:
Source -- HDMI cable --> Onkyo --> HDMI cable --> Darbee --> HDMI cable -- > HDMI splitter --> Long HDMI cable --> Projector
SC |
All I have read is if your using a HDMI in line extender, or a HDMI splitter, these are put as close to the PJ as possible. But then again, I am talking about 2 different things here. One is an in-line HDMI Booster, and the other is the splitter to eliminate the Fios drop-out. In either case/senario above, would the splitter/Amp all be at the "end"?
Long HDMI cable run ---> HDMI Amp (or Splitter) ---> PJ Input? I read that all of these boosters/splitters all need to be at the "Sink" end (assuming sink meand PJ)
Stu
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| smhagen wrote: | | All I have read is if your using a HDMI in line extender, or a HDMI splitter, these are put as close to the PJ as possible. |
Hmmm… Where did you read that, because it makes no sense to me. If a long cable run is degrading the HDMI signal to a point where it's become unusable, sticking an amplifier where the signal is unusable isn't going to suddenly fix it… It's going to amplify a signal an already-unsatisfactory signal. If the signal is good enough for the amplifier at the long end, then it should also be good enough for the display.
From my brief research, and intuitively speaking, an amplifier should be at the short end (near source/switcher), or in the middle of a long run.
SC
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smhagen
Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | | smhagen wrote: | | All I have read is if your using a HDMI in line extender, or a HDMI splitter, these are put as close to the PJ as possible. |
Hmmm… Where did you read that, because it makes no sense to me. If a long cable run is degrading the HDMI signal to a point where it's become unusable, sticking an amplifier where the signal is unusable isn't going to suddenly fix it… It's going to amplify a signal an already-unsatisfactory signal. If the signal is good enough for the amplifier at the long end, then it should also be good enough for the display.
From my brief research, and intuitively speaking, an amplifier should be at the short end (near source/switcher), or in the middle of a long run.
SC |
This is what Monoprice and every other supplier that sells these state:
Question: How do you connect these equalizers?
Answer: The equalizers should be connected on the end of a long run and not the beginning. This way they can compensate for errors that develope as the signal travels through the cable. One side of the equalizer is labeled, "source" and the other side is labeled, "sink." The source should point toward the origin of the signal and the sink should point toward your display.
I tried it at the PJ side and it did not work. I now have it in between my 2-25' runs and replaced the coupler with this and it works fine.
Here is a similar item that I think is he same "splitter" product: http://www.monoprice.com/Product?ab3=b&utm_expid=58369800-11.R-enhtUGRrSdHz5vzpVS2g.1&c_id=104&cp_id=10419&cs_id=1041914&p_id=7700&seq=1&format=2&utm_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.monoprice.com%2FSearch%2FIndex%3Fkeyword%3DHDMI%2Bextender
This is what I am waiting for to see if it fixes my Cable/DVR --> Onkyo issue. Albeit, it is working fine via component cables Cable/DVR -->Onkyo + Optical.
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