CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[deronmoped]

OK, here is the issue.

I have had a 10PG for years, issues pop up every now and then. It takes a little time but I have fixed them all. The latest one has me running out of ideas as to what is causing it. What happens is, the scan lines have noise in them, if that is the proper term. Another description would be, the scan lines are missing information randomly. The scan line draws the trace, then for some reason it randomly stops drawing. It's hard to see when the image is projected on the screen, but if I look at the tube face it's very apparent.

What I have done.

At first I thought it was in the video chain. I changed the RGBHV cable, no differance. I changed out the video out, the gain and the DEC boards but those were OK. I then hooked up a 20" CRT monitor to the PJ's RGBHV cable and could just barely see the problem was still there, so it's not the PJ.

I then replaced the HTPC with another one, same problem.

I then hooked up the HTPC to a line power conditioner, same problem.

I then ran the HTPC off a uninterruptable power supply, disconnected from the house mains, that is running off battery power, same problem.

Could it be the NSA? Just joking, but, it seems like it is a outside source. That is why I ran the HTPC off a UPS using battery power as I have a "Smart Meter" on the house that uses "Powerline Communication" technology.

Any ideas would be really helpful.

Thanks, Deron.

[winny]

Tin foil hat for the projector?
Have you tried just playing NSA friendly material from the HTPC, like Top Gun or my favourite The Hunt for Red October?

[ecrabb]

Long time, no see Daron!

Do you see this behavior with built-in patterns or menus, or only external sources? Does it behave this with with all resolutions/refresh rates? More noticeable with one than others? Can you snap a picture of it?

SC

[Nashou66]

If the scan lines stop drawing I'd look to the Control board.

Athanasios

[Curt Palme]

Hey Deron, unfortunately this is why I've stopped repairing or supporting PG sets. Leaky caps will be to blame most likely but it could be on any board. the only board I haven't seen leaky caps on is the power supply, so I'd look there last, but as Nash says, I'd suspect the system board or the deflection board.

My attitude now on the PG sets are to sell confirmed working boards dirt cheap, like $25-75 each. I'll verify proper operation here before shipping, but that's as far as the warranty goes. I've posted before, I've had too many re-repairs in the last 2-3 years where I repair one thing, and either something else on the same board fails, or another board fails right after I repair the first one. Had a couple of annoyed customers, and even my own sets for sale were failing, so I'm not selling plain PG and PG+s any more. the Xtras and XGs haven't shown these type of failures at this point, so it's full speed ahead on those.

I just sold a good working system board last week, I may have one more left, ditto for the deflection board.

[Curt Palme]

Hey Deron, unfortunately this is why I've stopped repairing or supporting PG sets. Leaky caps will be to blame most likely but it could be on any board. the only board I haven't seen leaky caps on is the power supply, so I'd look there last, but as Nash says, I'd suspect the system board or the deflection board.

My attitude now on the PG sets are to sell confirmed working boards dirt cheap, like $25-75 each. I'll verify proper operation here before shipping, but that's as far as the warranty goes. I've posted before, I've had too many re-repairs in the last 2-3 years where I repair one thing, and either something else on the same board fails, or another board fails right after I repair the first one. Had a couple of annoyed customers, and even my own sets for sale were failing, so I'm not selling plain PG and PG+s any more. the Xtras and XGs haven't shown these type of failures at this point, so it's full speed ahead on those.

I just sold a good working system board last week, I may have one more left, ditto for the deflection board.

[gjaky]

Guys!

[Nashou66]

[deronmoped]

Yeah, you guys are missing that point, it's not the PJ that is the source of the problem, well at least Athanasios caught that.

I used a different display to see if it was my 10PG causing the problem. With a 20" CRT monitor I can just barely make out the same issue with the scan lines. It's just goes to show how are CRT PJ's can be effected by things that would not effect other displays. Enlarging the image up 30 times will do that.

SC,

Yeah, it's been a long time, PJ has been treating me good, well almost except for this little issue. The issue shows up in the internal test patterns and with different resolution/refresh rates. I doubt if a screen shot would help, it's real hard to see in the projected image, it's one of those things that even if I pointed it out to people looking at the screen, they would still have a hard time making it out. Although, it's pretty obvious when you look at the face of the tube.

Curt,

Yeah, all these caps manufactured nowadays are crap. The boards that I have that are unused are OK (no leaking caps), boards that see consistent use the caps start to leak. Although even with leaking caps most boards still functions good. Even my desktop computer motherboards have failing caps, even to the point where they are popping apart. And this is on ASUS motherboards, name brand stuff.

I may be interested in those PG boards. I have a pretty good stock of them, but I want to keep this 10PG running as long as possible. So if your blowing out working boards I may take a few off your hands. I found that anything "straight" PG will swap into a 10PG, even if the numbers are different.

I been disconnecting possible electrical noise sources around the theater to see if that may be the issue, nothing so far fixes it.

Next I need to try a stand alone DVD player and see if that fixes it.

It sure does look like "static" in the scan lines, like static you would hear on a AM radio.

[Nashou66]

how is the G2 adjusted in the PG's? With a trim pot or via remote control?

Nashou

[gjaky]

[Nashou66]

[deronmoped]

Athanasios

You could be right, these machines (both the 10PG and the 20" CRT monitor) being probably about the same age and of the same operating principals, could be exhibiting the same image problem. Although, the G2 controls on my 10PG have been adjusted recently. When I was testing other video boards in the 10PG, they changed the brightness settings and I readjusted the G2's to get them back to where they should be.

I have been trying to think of a way to analyze this problem with test equipment, I wonder a oscilloscope would be the proper test equipment.

Oh, and I do have a 9PG that I also checked for the same issue that I'm having in the 10PG and it showed up there as well.

[Nashou66]

How long are the cables to the PJ?

[CasetheCorvetteman]

Have you tried a different PC or swapping the power supply in the PC?

[deronmoped]

Tonight I just tried a 5' cable, that didn't change anything.

That was one of the first things I tried when I realized it wasn't the PJ, I swapped out the SMPS with another one. The original one was a 550 Watt Antec the one I switched in was, what looked to be a better quality 500 watt one. Although I learned that even the "quality" brand ones can be not all they are made out to be.

Then I replaced the whole computer with a better one.

Next I'm going to try a stand alone DVD player.

I wonder if I should try a laptop?

[CasetheCorvetteman]

Try both.

Antec power supplies do come in various grades, from good to very good.

[Nashou66]

Are your source and PJ plugged into the same circuits?

[CIR Engineering]

I have an unrelated, but similar issue at my place. When I run 72Hz on the projector, if it is hot outside or cold outside than the image was what I call wobble. I have literally tried six different G90's here and they all do it. I finally realized that my old CRT PC monitor also shows wobble at around 72Hz and it is actually more pronounced on the PC monitor.

I have never been able to track down the problem. I hardly ever see any other G90 that show the wobble in the field (I have more than 75 clients with G90's). The only thing I can figure is something with my power. I think the wobble occurs mostly when it is hot or cold outside because most houses are all using their AC or heat and drawing a lot of current from the power lines.

I have tried a large isolation transformer with no luck. I wired up to 220 volts with no change. I am also stumped. The only note worthy thing is that the transformer on my street is nearly 100 years old. Sometimes the lights in my house flicker also. I suspect it's the transformer in the street causing the issue when it either overheats or just has too much draw on it.

Not that I would do it, but I kind of want to go out and shoot a hole through it with my 22 so that they city will replace it. The city said they were going to replace it two years ago and it's still there Maybe I'll move.

craigr

[CasetheCorvetteman]

Craig, you need to check the power factor mate, youll get this issue when the current lags the voltage.

See if you can get that measured.

It wont be the transformer, they either work or they dont. If it was over loaded, youd see a significant voltage drop under load. You cant adjust the supply frequency at the transformer, the power station governs that, transformer can only adjust voltage via the tappings.

[deronmoped]

Craig

I had a power issue when I first bought this house I'm in. Low voltage, like 110 and there were people farther down the line that must of had really low voltages. I had the Power company come out and do a power survey. A week later they replaced the transformer. That was like 25 years ago. They came out and replaced the transformer again about a year ago.

Take a quick measurement, you should get real close to 120VAC, less then 115VAC and I would be demanding proper power. That's what they are selling you, proper power.

Another thing that has me wondering, that is, "Power Line Communication". I have one of these new smart meters and they communicate over the power line. They are piggy backing a signal on the lines that used to only carry a 60 Hz signal, which we filter out to get DC. If the power line signal is passing though without being filtered out, what effect could that have on more sensitive equipment.

I think I eliminated that cause though, at least I did my best to take it out of the equation. What I did was use a UPS (you know, battery back up when the mains are down) and hooked that up to my computer. So I was not even hooked up to the mains, well at least the computer was not hooked up to the mains. Heck, I should of had both the PJ and HTPC hooked up to the UPS, not using the mains.