CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[gnnash]

Well, I was going to hook up my NES to my Runco DTV-1100, to see if I could get some Duck Hunt action going. The PJ is my only CRT device left in the house, so my only hope for light gun games.

To my surprise, I found that unlike it's Barco counterpart, the 1100 doesn't have a composite video input! I had never noticed this before, as I run everything else through my receiver to a Moome box.

So... I'm looking for a solution to convert composite video to RGBHV without any line doubling or processing. Running it through my receiver or my newly-aquired HDQ would obviously add delay, ruining any chances of playing light gun games.

Any ideas?

[Tim in Phoenix]

Hello


You need a decoder, which is most easily found as part of a line doubler or scaler. Electrohome had one as a match with the ECP1000, maybe ten bucks on Ebay if they have any.

[zaphod]

does it have S-video input? you can get a composite to S-video barrel adapter for $20 at radio shack.

[gnnash]

It only has PORT3, Component, and RGBHV. The RGBHV does accept sync-on-green and RGBS, so I do have options there, but it sounds like a decoder like Tim suggests may be the ticket. Anyone know of the model number of the Electrohome unit, or even better have one lying around?

[fragzero]

Or the other way, a NES RGB mod and feed RGBS straight in the projector

1 thing, at 240p you will get scanlines with huge blank spaces in between! Not comparable to a classic SD CRT monitor.

[gnnash]

Ha, if it wasn't so expensive and difficult to get an RGB PPU to make this possible, I'd do just that!

I realize the scanlines will be atrocious, but it will likely be necessary in order to keep light gun functionality! For normal games I expect to run through my HDQ, as long as the delay isn't too great.

[fragzero]

Probably the best compromise! I have read about these boxes but no idea how you could find them.

I use my HDP to play Snes and Gamecube and it feels ok. Don't forget a crt projector is nearly without lag so a scaler + CRT beats a scaler + flatscreen almost certainly

[banzairun]

I used to use FOR.A DEC-110s for this sort of thing about a decade ago..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FORA-DEC-110-PROFESSIONAL-COLOR-VIDEO-BROADCAST-DECODER-FOR-A-/261216117126?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cd1b1a186

Faroudja also makes good-quality decoders:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FAROUDJA-SUPER-NTSC-LABORATORIES-DECODER-/360735681943?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53fd85ad97

They're overkill, but will do what you want them to... give you huge blank space between your scan lines.

Most people modding their NESs for RGB seem to be doing it because they can then say they own one. They want to run them on good quality monitors like Sony PVMs with RGB ins, which already happen to have a comb filter that is miles better than whatever monitor they were using before, but these are people that aren't videophiles to begin with. I understand the appeal, but unfortunately it's gonna kill the supply of arcade boards to pull PPUs from eventually -- the price they get makes them worth junking.

[Curt Palme]

Hey, I think this is one of the $10K 'upgrades' that Runco did to the Barco. Look on the bright side: by removing the quad decoder, they saved the environment!

[Curt Palme]

Hey, I think this is one of the $10K 'upgrades' that Runco did to the Barco. Look on the bright side: by removing the quad decoder, they saved the environment!

[CasetheCorvetteman]

[the big E]

Dang case it looks like you have as many games and consoles as I have

I have a multi decoder card for my marquee and plan on using it with my nes and non rgb capable consoles(not really much difference but still can barely see the scan lines but it don't bug me)

Now to see if the nes light gun will work with my 120 inch screen after I go to 9inch tubes

Had the ops set been based on a nec it would have the video/svideo card depending on the model it was based on(my nec has it)

FYI case I got the nec's g2 back to the correct place now to fix the video issue on the green tube and it will be ready to run provided something else doesn't fail before I get it setup

[AnalogRocks]

Wow Case, that NEO-GEO has lines that look like blinds.

[AnalogRocks]

Wow Case, that NEO-GEO has lines that look like blinds.

[CasetheCorvetteman]

E, ive got almost every console in triplicate ( or more ) and more than 1,000 cart games, probably another 500 or more CD console games.

[fragzero]

[CasetheCorvetteman]

No need to be sorry

It might be a good idea to experience retro gaming done RIGHT before you comment on it though

Anyone that thinks line doubling ( or more ) that 240p image is going to improve it, its not. There is a reason the game developers almost always favoured 240p over 480i and 576i, and that reason is cause doubling the lines makes the jaggies worse, the graphics look much better with the scan lines in there, which you will only notice if youre concentrating on the lines and not the game play. Your mind will subconsciencly fill in the lines much neater than any line doubler can. In the cases were they used 480i and 576i they spent huge amounts of time on the graphics so it would look good and not jaggy.

If this was video, sure, do what you like, but retro games are lower res for a reason.

[CasetheCorvetteman]

Another thing too, the OP is not playing Duck Hunt cause of the cutting edge graphics and awesome visuals, he is playing it for the very reason every retro gamer plays 80s and 90s games, and that is cause they were FUN.

[fragzero]

I agree but the fact that our projectors are multiscan CRT devices means that the image they generate can't be compared with classic CRT monitors. Blank spaces are a lot bigger than on a classic CRT!

So 240p on a multiscan monitor isn't 240p on a classic SD CRT. You might prefer 240p, i upscale my snes to higher resolutions

[CasetheCorvetteman]

Negative. Totally incorrect. They are exactly like direct view CRTs, just projected. A 240p image looks the same on a good projector or rear pro TV as it does on an NEC XM29, and the scan lines are the same dimensions as any decent CRT display. Blank spaces as you call them are bigger cause the screen is bigger, id have thought that was pretty obvious. There is absolutely no other reason what so ever.

Friend of mine just got himself a 19" Sony PVM, which is a multiscan display... Upscale? Nope. Scanelines visible? Yep, wouldnt use it if they werent.

Ive got 2 Sony CRT projectors here that are NOT multisync, so with that said, and the example of the XM29 or Sony PVM/BVM direct view sets, your statement is all but defunct.

240p is 240p regardless of what CRT display you use, if itll scan at 15.7kHz, itll do 240p exactly the same as any other. 240p is still an SD resolution regardless of whether youre displaying it on a HD capable CRT or not.

If you want to upscale, youd be better off with an emulator.

[fragzero]

[CasetheCorvetteman]

Where is this explaination?