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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:20 pm Post subject: My new Turntable |
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Hooked up my New Rega P5 last weekend. It comes with the outboard power supply which send a modulated wave form to the drive motor, blah, blah , blah. Cart is also a Rega, their top of the line exact. I used the Rega 3-point mounting which supposedly aligns it perfectly (according to Rega's definition at least).
Set the tracking at 1.75 grams using a Sure gauge, and set anti-skate at 2.25 grams to null any side forces.
Sounds like crap, what the hell?  The highs are tizzy, upper mid-range is exaggerated and grating on my nerves, and there is just none of that mellow sweetness you expect from Vinyl. Mt last even more expensive TT had this same problem so I know now it's not the TT. Arrggh
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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Have you tried taping a penny to the head shell? 
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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Drags do you have a test LP and an oscilloscope?
Playiung the tst ones for left and right channels using a scope will get you dead on Channel separation. And also getting the azimuth of the cart perfect will eliminate the sibilance (tizzyness) your hearing. they have test ones for that too.
I only have gotten as far as the channel separation. its pretty cool once you get it right. Just liek a CRT's CPC magnets. A bitch but once its done you'll be rewarded.
So........
Sounds like its a bad set up.
PS, could be the Media as well, look on Audiokarma for what recordings are done well. Some say no new ones sound as good as original pressings.
Athanasios
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| AnalogRocks wrote: | | Have you tried taping a penny to the head shell? |
Darn it, I should have known. after spending thousands of dollars I only need 1 more penny 
| Nashou66 wrote: | Drags do you have a test LP and an oscilloscope?
Playiung the tst ones for left and right channels using a scope will get you dead on Channel separation. And also getting the azimuth of the cart perfect will eliminate the sibilance (tizzyness) your hearing. they have test ones for that too.
PS, could be the Media as well, look on Audiokarma for what recordings are done well. Some say no new ones sound as good as original pressings.
Athanasios |
Nash on a Rega Table with Rega cart using the 3 point mounting the Azimuth , VTA, overhang, and alignment are all set automatically when you use all 3 screws. I also have quite a lot of audiophile vinyl.
Found the problem last night, it was the dam speaker wires all along. They were a fine stranded coaxial cable " cross connected" by a formula from Jon Risch. I wish I had found this article sooner
http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/cross-coax-cables-design-vs-zip-cord/cross-coax-cables-design-vs-zip-cord-page-2
| Quote: | Wrapping It Up
Based on this analysis, it is clear that the Coax Cable design does have wider bandwidth than the 12AWG Zip Cord. However, at audio frequencies this mostly irrelevant since both designs are responsible for less than -0.10dB loss in the 20 kHz audio bandwidth for cable lengths of 10ft in high end systems. Yet the Coax Cable design, because of its increased DC resistance, resulted in a -0.1dB loss within the entire audio bandwidth, which would be even more apparent as cable length increases or speaker load impedance decreases. The added capacitance of the Cross Coax cable design can also represent stability problems as cable lengths increase, especially for esoteric tube amp designs with higher output impedance and lower unity gain crossing. It is possible for high capacitive loads of a cable to cause two related effects due to loss of the power amp gain and phase margin. Firstly, in the frequency domain, very significant gain peaking can occur. Secondly, in the time domain, the step response may have a much higher overshoot, and exhibit excessive ringing (at about the unity gain frequency) due to loss of power amp phase margin from excessive capacitive loading.
In defense of the Cross Coax cable design, 49.9pf/ft is about 5-10 times lower than some of the "exotic" cables we have measured, thus it would probably take quite a long cable run with a not so ideally designer power amp to present a significant problem with amplifier stability. On a less serious note, some people may prefer the excessive frequency peaking due to overshoot that high capacitance speaker cables may cause, assuming rampant oscillations are not present, as the listener may possibly perceive it as sounding "brighter". The question should be asked however, "Do you want your cables to act as tone controls, or be as transparent (accurate) as possible?" |
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | | AnalogRocks wrote: | | Have you tried taping a penny to the head shell? |
Darn it, I should have known. after spending thousands of dollars I only need 1 more penny
On a less serious note, some people may prefer the excessive frequency peaking due to overshoot that high capacitance speaker cables may cause, assuming rampant oscillations are not present, as the listener may possibly perceive it as sounding "brighter". The question should be asked however, "Do you want your cables to act as tone controls, or be as transparent (accurate) as possible?" |
If you're really good you can stack the pennys
Wow, I never heard of using coaxial cable for speakers. I auditioned around 6 different types of standard side by side cables back in the day and I really couldn't hear a huge difference. RCA cables I could though.
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| AnalogRocks wrote: | | Wow, I never heard of using coaxial cable for speakers. I auditioned around 6 different types of standard side by side cables back in the day and I really couldn't hear a huge difference. RCA cables I could though. |
I've come to the conclusion that mucking around with speaker cables can only cause problems with no real benefit. I was stupid enough to read and follow something on the internet as well.
A good solid 12AWG copper wire with is perfect
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | | AnalogRocks wrote: | | Wow, I never heard of using coaxial cable for speakers. I auditioned around 6 different types of standard side by side cables back in the day and I really couldn't hear a huge difference. RCA cables I could though. |
I've come to the conclusion that mucking around with speaker cables can only cause problems with no real benefit. I was stupid enough to read and follow something on the internet as well.
A good solid 12AWG copper wire with is perfect |
Yeah most of mine are 10-12 gage. I do have some flat cable because I ran it under the carpet. I think that stuff is 12 or 14 gage equivalent.
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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Its rather surprising how bad a poorly designed cable can be really. They did some actual electrical tests and found no correlation between price and performance. AAMOF, the most expensive cable in the test did the worst,
It's seems like Capacitance is the worst offender, and braiding the positive and negative cables will make this worse, who knew
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/cables/speaker-cable-face-off-1
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | Its rather surprising how bad a poorly designed cable can be really. They did some actual electrical tests and found no correlation between price and performance. AAMOF, the most expensive cable in the test did the worst,
It's seems like Capacitance is the worst offender, and braiding the positive and negative cables will make this worse, who knew
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/cables/speaker-cable-face-off-1 |
My favorite is the 'directional' cables. Are they serious?
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