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mr_ro_co
Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1643
Location: Santa Fe NM
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| Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:41 pm Post subject: rainbow halo with new Panasonic TC-P55VT50 |
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The prices are just too reasonable now so I picked up a Panny TC-P55VT50 to replace a tired old 1080i Toshiba CRT in the bedroom. The Panny is of course very nice, but I saw something last night that really surprised me. On really dark scenes with bright objects I saw something out of the corner of my eye that reminded me of DLP rainbow. When I would quickly glance from one end of the screen to the other, I'd see a rainbow-like effect in or at the periphery of my vision.
Conditions: 10' viewing distance, totally dark room, PS3 spitting out 24P blueray and Panny set to 96Hz on "THX Cinema" mode.
What am I seeing? I've never seen this with CRT, direct or projection. Is this a plasma artifact?
Steve
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mr_ro_co
Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1643
Location: Santa Fe NM
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| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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Anyone have one of these with some recommended settings?
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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I've seen a little rainbow before even on RP CRTs, Steve. I was at a dealer probably 7 or 8 years ago, standing off to the side of a Hitachi CRT RPTV, and glanced up to look at somebody and saw it. The only thing I can think that would cause rainbows with CRT or plasma is differing decay times between the different tubes. Would that even cause it?
SC
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:45 pm Post subject: Re: rainbow halo with new Panasonic TC-P55VT50 |
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| mr_ro_co wrote: | The prices are just too reasonable now so I picked up a Panny TC-P55VT50 to replace a tired old 1080i Toshiba CRT in the bedroom. The Panny is of course very nice, but I saw something last night that really surprised me. On really dark scenes with bright objects I saw something out of the corner of my eye that reminded me of DLP rainbow. When I would quickly glance from one end of the screen to the other, I'd see a rainbow-like effect in or at the periphery of my vision.
Conditions: 10' viewing distance, totally dark room, PS3 spitting out 24P blueray and Panny set to 96Hz on "THX Cinema" mode.
What am I seeing? I've never seen this with CRT, direct or projection. Is this a plasma artifact?
Steve |
What you're describing are often referred to as "phosphor trails." As ecrabb suggested above, they're the result of the uneven decay of the different types of phosphors used to generate red, green, and blue light. It's usually only noticeable on high-contrast material - if a bright object is moving through a dark space, darting your eyes back and forth can allow you to detect the uneven phosphor decay behind the moving object, and the phenomenon is reportedly similar to how we perceive DLP rainbows. As with DLP, the ability to detect it is dependent upon the viewer, the display, and the material that you're viewing. I've personally never noticed it on either of my Kuros, but it's either something you get used to or you don't. There's no "fix" for it aside from not darting your eyes around the screen rapidly.
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| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:09 am Post subject: Re: rainbow halo with new Panasonic TC-P55VT50 |
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| HogPilot wrote: | | mr_ro_co wrote: | The prices are just too reasonable now so I picked up a Panny TC-P55VT50 to replace a tired old 1080i Toshiba CRT in the bedroom. The Panny is of course very nice, but I saw something last night that really surprised me. On really dark scenes with bright objects I saw something out of the corner of my eye that reminded me of DLP rainbow. When I would quickly glance from one end of the screen to the other, I'd see a rainbow-like effect in or at the periphery of my vision.
Conditions: 10' viewing distance, totally dark room, PS3 spitting out 24P blueray and Panny set to 96Hz on "THX Cinema" mode.
What am I seeing? I've never seen this with CRT, direct or projection. Is this a plasma artifact?
Steve |
What you're describing are often referred to as "phosphor trails." As ecrabb suggested above, they're the result of the uneven decay of the different types of phosphors used to generate red, green, and blue light. It's usually only noticeable on high-contrast material - if a bright object is moving through a dark space, darting your eyes back and forth can allow you to detect the uneven phosphor decay behind the moving object, and the phenomenon is reportedly similar to how we perceive DLP rainbows. As with DLP, the ability to detect it is dependent upon the viewer, the display, and the material that you're viewing. I've personally never noticed it on either of my Kuros, but it's either something you get used to or you don't. There's no "fix" for it aside from not darting your eyes around the screen rapidly. |
Well now that's disappointing I was hoping when I picked one of those up outta the trash it would have a decent picture. 
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:25 pm Post subject: Re: rainbow halo with new Panasonic TC-P55VT50 |
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| AnalogRocks wrote: | | HogPilot wrote: | | mr_ro_co wrote: | The prices are just too reasonable now so I picked up a Panny TC-P55VT50 to replace a tired old 1080i Toshiba CRT in the bedroom. The Panny is of course very nice, but I saw something last night that really surprised me. On really dark scenes with bright objects I saw something out of the corner of my eye that reminded me of DLP rainbow. When I would quickly glance from one end of the screen to the other, I'd see a rainbow-like effect in or at the periphery of my vision.
Conditions: 10' viewing distance, totally dark room, PS3 spitting out 24P blueray and Panny set to 96Hz on "THX Cinema" mode.
What am I seeing? I've never seen this with CRT, direct or projection. Is this a plasma artifact?
Steve |
What you're describing are often referred to as "phosphor trails." As ecrabb suggested above, they're the result of the uneven decay of the different types of phosphors used to generate red, green, and blue light. It's usually only noticeable on high-contrast material - if a bright object is moving through a dark space, darting your eyes back and forth can allow you to detect the uneven phosphor decay behind the moving object, and the phenomenon is reportedly similar to how we perceive DLP rainbows. As with DLP, the ability to detect it is dependent upon the viewer, the display, and the material that you're viewing. I've personally never noticed it on either of my Kuros, but it's either something you get used to or you don't. There's no "fix" for it aside from not darting your eyes around the screen rapidly. |
Well now that's disappointing I was hoping when I picked one of those up outta the trash it would have a decent picture. |
From all that I've read, phosphor trails are far less visible/detectable than DLP rainbows. It seems that you have to try pretty hard to induce them, so I would say that your trash TV should still provide you with much viewing pleasure 
_________________
| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
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mr_ro_co
Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1643
Location: Santa Fe NM
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:35 pm Post subject: Re: rainbow halo with new Panasonic TC-P55VT50 |
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| HogPilot wrote: | | mr_ro_co wrote: | The prices are just too reasonable now so I picked up a Panny TC-P55VT50 to replace a tired old 1080i Toshiba CRT in the bedroom. The Panny is of course very nice, but I saw something last night that really surprised me. On really dark scenes with bright objects I saw something out of the corner of my eye that reminded me of DLP rainbow. When I would quickly glance from one end of the screen to the other, I'd see a rainbow-like effect in or at the periphery of my vision.
Conditions: 10' viewing distance, totally dark room, PS3 spitting out 24P blueray and Panny set to 96Hz on "THX Cinema" mode.
What am I seeing? I've never seen this with CRT, direct or projection. Is this a plasma artifact?
Steve |
What you're describing are often referred to as "phosphor trails." As ecrabb suggested above, they're the result of the uneven decay of the different types of phosphors used to generate red, green, and blue light. It's usually only noticeable on high-contrast material - if a bright object is moving through a dark space, darting your eyes back and forth can allow you to detect the uneven phosphor decay behind the moving object, and the phenomenon is reportedly similar to how we perceive DLP rainbows. As with DLP, the ability to detect it is dependent upon the viewer, the display, and the material that you're viewing. I've personally never noticed it on either of my Kuros, but it's either something you get used to or you don't. There's no "fix" for it aside from not darting your eyes around the screen rapidly. |
Thanks - very good, I understand now. It is so subtle that it doesn't concern me, but once I saw it I had to look for it and was curious about what was causing it. It is nothing even remotely as bad as the last DLP I saw, something I'd have a hard time getting used to.
There's a lot of discussion about the merit of using color slides for the first 100 hours to "break in" the phosphor on these plamas. I'm not bothering, instead just playing a wide range of full screen material for the first few weeks, which many say will work just fine. I wonder if this difference in phosphor decay will lesson as the set gets used. Thoughts?
How do think this set stacks up against the Kuro?
Thanks guys,
Steve
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Not only is there no god, try finding a plumber on Sunday!
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: rainbow halo with new Panasonic TC-P55VT50 |
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| mr_ro_co wrote: | | HogPilot wrote: | | mr_ro_co wrote: | The prices are just too reasonable now so I picked up a Panny TC-P55VT50 to replace a tired old 1080i Toshiba CRT in the bedroom. The Panny is of course very nice, but I saw something last night that really surprised me. On really dark scenes with bright objects I saw something out of the corner of my eye that reminded me of DLP rainbow. When I would quickly glance from one end of the screen to the other, I'd see a rainbow-like effect in or at the periphery of my vision.
Conditions: 10' viewing distance, totally dark room, PS3 spitting out 24P blueray and Panny set to 96Hz on "THX Cinema" mode.
What am I seeing? I've never seen this with CRT, direct or projection. Is this a plasma artifact?
Steve |
What you're describing are often referred to as "phosphor trails." As ecrabb suggested above, they're the result of the uneven decay of the different types of phosphors used to generate red, green, and blue light. It's usually only noticeable on high-contrast material - if a bright object is moving through a dark space, darting your eyes back and forth can allow you to detect the uneven phosphor decay behind the moving object, and the phenomenon is reportedly similar to how we perceive DLP rainbows. As with DLP, the ability to detect it is dependent upon the viewer, the display, and the material that you're viewing. I've personally never noticed it on either of my Kuros, but it's either something you get used to or you don't. There's no "fix" for it aside from not darting your eyes around the screen rapidly. |
Thanks - very good, I understand now. It is so subtle that it doesn't concern me, but once I saw it I had to look for it and was curious about what was causing it. It is nothing even remotely as bad as the last DLP I saw, something I'd have a hard time getting used to.
There's a lot of discussion about the merit of using color slides for the first 100 hours to "break in" the phosphor on these plamas. I'm not bothering, instead just playing a wide range of full screen material for the first few weeks, which many say will work just fine. I wonder if this difference in phosphor decay will lesson as the set gets used. Thoughts?
How do think this set stacks up against the Kuro?
Thanks guys,
Steve |
There's been a lot of discussion over on AVS about various types of break-in slides for plasmas. Those who actually know what they're talking about from a technical standpoint agree that break-in slides do nothing extra or special, and that normal full-screen viewing without static logos (as you are doing) is perfectly sufficient.
To my knowledge, phosphor decay rate is intrinsic to the material used and really doesn't change over time; that is to say, aging your set won't change the occurrence of phosphor trails. Obviously as the phosphors age they will get dimmer, but you'd have to watch your plasma for an obscene amount of time every day for 10-20 years to even approach its half-life.
I haven't seen your particular Panny in person, but the consensus seems to be that, overall, the difference between a current Panny and a late model Kuro is incremental rather than drastic, including black levels. The Pannys don't calibrate quite as well as Kuros or Samsungs, but that's a pretty nitpicky critique. You have yourself a great TV.
_________________
| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
SC |
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mr_ro_co
Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1643
Location: Santa Fe NM
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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Very good, that's what I needed to hear. I'm always suspicious about break-in claims, but thought it might be plausible with phosphor.
Frankly my primary consideration for selection was reliability, and consensus seems to give Panasonic the edge in this regard. If I could buy a new Kuro today, I would. Came close to getting the 60" in 2008. Phenomenal set.
Steve
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