| Are you getting viewing fatigue? |
| Only after a long time |
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15% |
[ 3 ] |
| A movie maybe, after that I need rest |
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5% |
[ 1 ] |
| I ignore it througout the movie |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| I don't get fatigued |
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80% |
[ 16 ] |
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| Total Votes : 20 |
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David_Web
Joined: 02 May 2007 Posts: 418 Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:18 pm Post subject: Do you get viewing fatigue? |
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Today when I finally got the projector into a working order I could not help hut spend some time to watch it.
An unknown time later my eyes where getting pretty tired.
It could just be that I spend some time concentrating on too small text that was somewhat blurry to boot (quick setup).
But that won't explain why it got worse while watching clips from movies later.
And it's not like I haven't stared at screens for a long time before.
I did notice that I got a bit tired while watching the projector last time but I shrugged it off then.
So has any one else experienced something similar or have a solution?
Maybe it has to be set up better.
_________________ SNR of people are ridiculously low.
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HaydnG90
Joined: 22 May 2006 Posts: 1356
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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Only if I'm watching a DLP pj.
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Phoenixed
Joined: 13 Oct 2011 Posts: 514 Location: The mitten
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| HaydnG90 wrote: | | Only if I'm watching a DLP pj. |
Agreed. Pretty much any digital does it to me. My old Epson was blasting at least 23fls.
_________________ Planar PD-8150/Runco LS-5
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fuchs
Joined: 27 Jun 2012 Posts: 153 Location: the NL
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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you have that in similar situations like cinema, too?
You might find the answer in making just a tiny little amount of "side" light so the room isn't 100% dark. Maybe it helps a bit.
Unless there's some technical issue ofcourse.
I get tired of the flicker if the refresh rate is <72Hz.
The obvious solution to that is to use >72Hz.
And yes , DO align/converge the projector properly, dammit
_________________ onkel fuchs' cheapskate cinema
NEC plain 9PG
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 Posts: 4269 Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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You may be sitting too close to the screen. Ideally for most people you should sit 1.3x the width of the screen back from the screen. So if your screen is 3 meters wide, you should sit 3.9 meters away from the screen (or more) to minimize eye strain.
The idea is that you should not have to move your eyes at all while watching. You should be far enough back so that you don't need to move your eyes.
craigr
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AnalogRocks Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 26706 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| CIR Engineering wrote: | You may be sitting too close to the screen. Ideally for most people you should sit 1.3x the width of the screen back from the screen. So if your screen is 3 meters wide, you should sit 3.9 meters away from the screen (or more) to minimize eye strain.
The idea is that you should not have to move your eyes at all while watching. You should be far enough back so that you don't need to move your eyes.
craigr |
Where's the fun in that?
_________________ Tech support for nothing
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tanwn
Joined: 26 Dec 2006 Posts: 104
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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if your crt is not properly calbrated or color temperature is grossly wrong or wrong color space may cause it.
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 18114 Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:16 am Post subject: Re: Do you get viewing fatigue? |
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| David_Web wrote: | | Today when I finally got the projector into a working order I could not help hut spend some time to watch it. |
What projector?
What source?
What sized screen?
How far back do you sit?
What resolution/refresh rate?
Has it been calibrated and if yes, what you mean by "calibration"?
Kal
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ecrabb Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 15909 Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:34 am Post subject: |
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| CIR Engineering wrote: | | You may be sitting too close to the screen. Ideally for most people you should sit 1.3x the width of the screen back from the screen. So if your screen is 3 meters wide, you should sit 3.9 meters away from the screen (or more) to minimize eye strain. |
Personally, I think the "tennis match" concern is greatly overblown. Hardly anybody sits so close that it's a problem. It's not as if the director changes the center-of-focus every half-second.
I sit about 10 feet from 8-foot wide screen (1.2x screen width) and I have zero issues with eye strain. Art Sonneborn has large angle of view (must be close to 1x), Cliffy has a large angle of view (probably similar to mine)... And those guys don't have trouble.
I think "eye strain" is more often caused by too little light, than by scanning. After all, think about the movements your eyes make while reading. Your eyeballs scan the page hundreds of times every couple of minutes, and as long as you have plenty of light, most people don't have any problem with eye strain. Now, turn the lights down, and NOW you'll have trouble with eye strain.
So, I think worse than sitting too close to the screen is sitting too far. Some people are sitting 2.0x screen widths are more, which is silly in my opinion. Both in terms of diminishing the "big screen experience", and in terms of inducing eye strain. If the screen doesn't take up enough of your field of vision, then your iris will be straining in the dark scenes to see, and then blown out in the bright scenes because your iris won't constrict as much as if the image were larger (brighter) in your field of view.
In fact, the number one reason for bias lighting is to reduce eye strain and viewing fatigue in a dark room.
So, when I hear somebody talk about eye strain, I wonder if their screen is too small/viewing distance too long, and/or their picture is too dim.
I like Kal's idea about getting some details.
SC
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digitalayon
Joined: 02 Mar 2009 Posts: 921
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:47 am Post subject: |
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I thought it was called two shots and a cheap date.
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 8990 Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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I sit 1.2X from screen and have never gotten eye strain, even after a 4 or 5 hour double feature. My ass hurts from sitting, even on a couch, but never my eye-balls
Crappy screens, low powered projectors, blurry images, or digital artifacts, those can cause eye strain
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David_Web
Joined: 02 May 2007 Posts: 418 Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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PJ is a Marquee 7500 + 1000
Screen is tupplur from IKEA. Not exactly flat so I got some bad focus but it is adequate for testing. I didn't want to waste too much setup time on it so geometry and the like was just eyeballed to "ok" levels.
Tennis-match is not it I think as I can read for hours on a computer screen.
Brightness might be some of the issue, I corrected some of the black level by increasing gamma. At least until I can calibrate it color wise.
The sensation was a little like a burning at the back of my eyes. Is it possible the PJ emits UV radiation?
A black room with a bright screen is nothing new to me so that is not usually a problem.
I ran it at 1920x1200@60Hz this time.
Last time I used 1080i at 96Hz.
I can understand text being very bad if unsharp, but movie content should not be as picky.
Kind of scratching my head here.
Maybe a combination of the image being a little bit unsharp and dark causes my eyelids to open more than usual and that causes some strain that shows up as a burning/sand sensation at the back of the eye.
_________________ SNR of people are ridiculously low.
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ecrabb Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 15909 Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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Burning at the back of the eyes... That sounds like light/dark fatigue to me. What's your screen size and viewing distance, David?
I'm just guessing, but I'd imagine the IKEA blind material is probably <1.0 gain. Smaller screen size could compensate, though.
SC
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nettwerkjohn
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 921 Location: Blenheim, Marlborough, New Zealand
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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viewing fatigue corresponds with: number of beers in me, time of the day, and is perversely related to the number and size of explosions on screen. say, the climactic battle in private ryan - i'll be asleep in, oh, about 15 seconds. something like, say, rev/s/olution road (that truly god-awful thing with winslet and decaprio) will keep me glued. aaaaaggggghhhh! man, i want those 2 hours back...
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wallace123456
Joined: 14 Aug 2006 Posts: 2236 Location: Northwest VA area
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:40 am Post subject: |
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I get fatiuge on almost everything except for CRT. If I get tired or fall asleep watching the projector, I am usually wiped out all togetehr anyway.
wallace
_________________ Life Is Good, But BBQ Is Better! BBQ Competition Team
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Jesse S
Joined: 12 May 2007 Posts: 209 Location: Etobicoke
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:20 am Post subject: |
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Light colored walls/ceiling/floor can cause eye fatigue. My room is entirely black and even a scene change between black as night and bright as day causes virtually no eye strain. Before when my room had a white ceiling and light colors here and there, the changes in light would "spill" into the room and I think the extra light in the peripheral vision caused fatigue. This is one reason why good movie theaters are mostly black, especially right around the screen.
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km987654
Joined: 25 Jul 2007 Posts: 2874 Location: Australia
TV/Projector: Barco BG809s
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | | CIR Engineering wrote: | | You may be sitting too close to the screen. Ideally for most people you should sit 1.3x the width of the screen back from the screen. So if your screen is 3 meters wide, you should sit 3.9 meters away from the screen (or more) to minimize eye strain. |
Personally, I think the "tennis match" concern is greatly overblown. Hardly anybody sits so close that it's a problem. It's not as if the director changes the center-of-focus every half-second.
I sit about 10 feet from 8-foot wide screen (1.2x screen width) and I have zero issues with eye strain. Art Sonneborn has large angle of view (must be close to 1x), Cliffy has a large angle of view (probably similar to mine)... And those guys don't have trouble.
I think "eye strain" is more often caused by too little light, than by scanning. After all, think about the movements your eyes make while reading. Your eyeballs scan the page hundreds of times every couple of minutes, and as long as you have plenty of light, most people don't have any problem with eye strain. Now, turn the lights down, and NOW you'll have trouble with eye strain.
So, I think worse than sitting too close to the screen is sitting too far. Some people are sitting 2.0x screen widths are more, which is silly in my opinion. Both in terms of diminishing the "big screen experience", and in terms of inducing eye strain. If the screen doesn't take up enough of your field of vision, then your iris will be straining in the dark scenes to see, and then blown out in the bright scenes because your iris won't constrict as much as if the image were larger (brighter) in your field of view.
In fact, the number one reason for bias lighting is to reduce eye strain and viewing fatigue in a dark room.
So, when I hear somebody talk about eye strain, I wonder if their screen is too small/viewing distance too long, and/or their picture is too dim.
I like Kal's idea about getting some details.
SC |
Your points are all good for me. I really enjoy being close and personal to the image. Of course you really need your projector set up well otherwise all the image issues will be visible but this all part of the hobby (or Challenge).
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 8990 Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| David_Web wrote: | PJ is a Marquee 7500 + 1000
Screen is tupplur from IKEA. Not exactly flat so I got some bad focus but it is adequate for testing. I didn't want to waste too much setup time on it so geometry and the like was just eyeballed to "ok" levels.
Kind of scratching my head here.
Maybe a combination of the image being a little bit unsharp and dark causes my eyelids to open more than usual and that causes some strain that shows up as a burning/sand sensation at the back of the eye. |
a combination of blurry and dim image from a improper screen is enough. What color is your ceiling, screen wall and floor?
| Jesse S wrote: | | Light colored walls/ceiling/floor can cause eye fatigue. My room is entirely black and even a scene change between black as night and bright as day causes virtually no eye strain. Before when my room had a white ceiling and light colors here and there, the changes in light would "spill" into the room and I think the extra light in the peripheral vision caused fatigue. This is one reason why good movie theaters are mostly black, especially right around the screen. | YES. When I darked-out just the ceiling and screen-wall viewing became much easier. White walls and ceiling is like sound reflections in poor audio. It's basically noise competing with the primary signal and your ears, eyes, brain have ot filter it out.
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