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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:33 am Post subject: Went to the movies. Digital projection sux! |
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I went to see two movies yesterday.
Spiderman, in a small multiplex theater with a crappy digital projector and massive flicker. 30-40 minuted in I had a headache. Plus the SDE and the interaction of the square pixels with the acoustically transparent screen made for a truely craptastic 2 hours.
Batman Dark Knight Rises, different theater, bigger screen, crap ass digital projection. SDE.
By the end of the films I had realized that I spent good money just to watch a video 
When I go to see a film, I'm there to watch a FILM! Not a video projection.
I'm going to re-see Batman in IMAX FILM, because nothing digital can touch it.
I even heard the local drive in went digital. Is nothing sacred?!
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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Bummer you've had some bad experiences with digital cinema - I've seen some solid examples and in several respects it can outperform film, or at least the kind of film that ends up getting shown in theaters. Most film-based theaters I've been to can't touch my home theater in terms of contrast, sharpness, and light output. The days of professional projectionists are long gone - most film theaters I attend these days leave me wanting in terms of performance.
However I agree about 2K IMAX - it can't come close to 70mm film. I look forward to seeing 4K IMAX in person though, I've heard good things so far.
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| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| HogPilot wrote: | Bummer you've had some bad experiences with digital cinema - I've seen some solid examples and in several respects it can outperform film, or at least the kind of film that ends up getting shown in theaters. Most film-based theaters I've been to can't touch my home theater in terms of contrast, sharpness, and light output. The days of professional projectionists are long gone - most film theaters I attend these days leave me wanting in terms of performance.
However I agree about 2K IMAX - it can't come close to 70mm film. I look forward to seeing 4K IMAX in person though, I've heard good things so far. |
Honestly. I think the first theater had the lowest line digital projectors in there.
4K is still wayyyyy lacking as compared to IMAX film though in terms of resolution. I'll have a look one of these days too.
I agree with you on the home front. I love the look of Bluray into my RPTV at 1080i or into my Ampro, especially on the smaller screen I use. CRT blacks with a gamma bump. Mmmmmm ( Homer drooling )
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jbmeyer13
Joined: 03 Dec 2010
Posts: 1135
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, might help to explain why Peter Jackson is busy stating teenagers don't go to the movies anymore...lol
The truth is that Hollywood is going backwards in terms of presentation quality; both content and display are $#!@ these days. Quality seems to have taken a back seat to quantity in a really big way.
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| AnalogRocks wrote: | | HogPilot wrote: | Bummer you've had some bad experiences with digital cinema - I've seen some solid examples and in several respects it can outperform film, or at least the kind of film that ends up getting shown in theaters. Most film-based theaters I've been to can't touch my home theater in terms of contrast, sharpness, and light output. The days of professional projectionists are long gone - most film theaters I attend these days leave me wanting in terms of performance.
However I agree about 2K IMAX - it can't come close to 70mm film. I look forward to seeing 4K IMAX in person though, I've heard good things so far. |
Honestly. I think the first theater had the lowest line digital projectors in there. |
I'm not sure what you saw, but if it was some of the early model Sony SXRD models, I heard a lot of poor reviews on those. The Christie and Barco DLP models seem to be far superior in many respects.
| AnalogRocks wrote: | | 4K is still wayyyyy lacking as compared to IMAX film though in terms of resolution. I'll have a look one of these days too. |
See my comments in the TDKR thread about 2K IMAX - bottom line, it leaves a lot to be desired.
| AnalogRocks wrote: | | I agree with you on the home front. I love the look of Bluray into my RPTV at 1080i or into my Ampro, especially on the smaller screen I use. CRT blacks with a gamma bump. Mmmmmm ( Homer drooling ) |
I love the faux-4K (4K lite as some people call it) on my RS55 and my 12' Enlightor 4K AT cinemascope screen. Looks WAY better than any theater presentation I've seen.
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| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| AnalogRocks wrote: | | I agree with you on the home front. I love the look of Bluray into my RPTV at 1080i or into my Ampro, especially on the smaller screen I use. CRT blacks with a gamma bump. Mmmmmm ( Homer drooling ) |
I like watching Bluray into my digital and seeing the full 1080p of the source as opposed to the less-than-half of that you're watching on your RPTV or Ampro. 
I agree that 70mm IMAX can be a gorgeous presentation, but it was becoming an increasing rarity. So, in general, you're waxing nostalgic about having something you never really had much opportunity to see in the first place.
First of all, "good old film"... By the time they were printed, 35mm prints weren't really any better than 2k. Then, throw in the fact that unless you saw the movie on opening day, the prints usually had scratches and dust, were often bowed and so out of focus on the sides or center. So, I'd hardly call it "good old". There was also some gate jitter, flicker, and you were often treated to a skip in picture and audio where the "tech" spliced 2 or 3 reels together. Of course, contrast was lower than what most of us are used to seeing at home, too.
I haven't seen an outstanding film presentation in years. It just wasn't happening much anymore. From the pimply high-school kid running the projector, to the megaplex with a manager that didn't care, to the profits coming from popcorn and not the film presentation.
So, I enjoy watching the superior presentation at home, whether it was on my G70, or on my new digital... Both are far superior to even the 35mm presentation I was used to seeing at any typical cineplex.
As for the digital, as Hog pointed out, some are actually quite good, and without any of the artifacts that nearly all film presentations had. The last few shows I've been to have been excellent.
70mm IMAX is one thing, but I really don't miss film at the cineplex the way some of you do... I don't think some of you are being that realistic about how good it actually was.
SC
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | | AnalogRocks wrote: | | I agree with you on the home front. I love the look of Bluray into my RPTV at 1080i or into my Ampro, especially on the smaller screen I use. CRT blacks with a gamma bump. Mmmmmm ( Homer drooling ) |
I like watching Bluray into my digital and seeing the full 1080p of the source as opposed to the less-than-half of that you're watching on your RPTV or Ampro.
I agree that 70mm IMAX can be a gorgeous presentation, but it was becoming an increasing rarity. So, in general, you're waxing nostalgic about having something you never really had much opportunity to see in the first place.
First of all, "good old film"... By the time they were printed, 35mm prints weren't really any better than 2k. Then, throw in the fact that unless you saw the movie on opening day, the prints usually had scratches and dust, were often bowed and so out of focus on the sides or center. So, I'd hardly call it "good old". There was also some gate jitter, flicker, and you were often treated to a skip in picture and audio where the "tech" spliced 2 or 3 reels together. Of course, contrast was lower than what most of us are used to seeing at home, too.
I haven't seen an outstanding film presentation in years. It just wasn't happening much anymore. From the pimply high-school kid running the projector, to the megaplex with a manager that didn't care, to the profits coming from popcorn and not the film presentation.
So, I enjoy watching the superior presentation at home, whether it was on my G70, or on my new digital... Both are far superior to even the 35mm presentation I was used to seeing at any typical cineplex.
As for the digital, as Hog pointed out, some are actually quite good, and without any of the artifacts that nearly all film presentations had. The last few shows I've been to have been excellent.
70mm IMAX is one thing, but I really don't miss film at the cineplex the way some of you do... I don't think some of you are being that realistic about how good it actually was.
SC |
Well put.
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| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
SC |
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garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12088
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:07 pm Post subject: Re: Went to the movies. Digital projection sux! |
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| AnalogRocks wrote: | | I even heard the local drive in went digital. Is nothing sacred?! |
They have no choice. The studios aren't going to send out film much longer. You go digital, or you go out of business.
We have a cool little boutique cinema here in town -- tiny place, 2 screens, maybe 200 seats in each. You can buy a nice microbrew and some food and enjoy them with your movie. There is no way in hell they can afford the >$100k it will take to "upgrade" to digital. They've started a Kickstarter campaign to raise the money. They've got a week to go and they've got almost $100k -- they're looking for $150k so they can get the projectors AND some decent non-beat-up seating. Hopefully even if they don't get their full $150k, they'll still get enough to stay in business.
Their campaign poster is pretty cute. Years ago, a local group called "Save the Poudre" made an attention-getting poster to prevent the bad guys from damming up the Poudre River:
...so the folks at the Lyric started a "Save the Lyric" campaign!
I suspect it's photoshopped, since the theater is on a fairly major street in Old Town Ft. Collins. They probably would have caused a traffic problem if they'd actually mooned the street!
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:04 am Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | | AnalogRocks wrote: | | I agree with you on the home front. I love the look of Bluray into my RPTV at 1080i or into my Ampro, especially on the smaller screen I use. CRT blacks with a gamma bump. Mmmmmm ( Homer drooling ) |
I like watching Bluray into my digital and seeing the full 1080p of the source as opposed to the less-than-half of that you're watching on your RPTV or Ampro.
I agree that 70mm IMAX can be a gorgeous presentation, but it was becoming an increasing rarity. So, in general, you're waxing nostalgic about having something you never really had much opportunity to see in the first place.
First of all, "good old film"... By the time they were printed, 35mm prints weren't really any better than 2k. Then, throw in the fact that unless you saw the movie on opening day, the prints usually had scratches and dust, were often bowed and so out of focus on the sides or center. So, I'd hardly call it "good old". There was also some gate jitter, flicker, and you were often treated to a skip in picture and audio where the "tech" spliced 2 or 3 reels together. Of course, contrast was lower than what most of us are used to seeing at home, too.
I haven't seen an outstanding film presentation in years. It just wasn't happening much anymore. From the pimply high-school kid running the projector, to the megaplex with a manager that didn't care, to the profits coming from popcorn and not the film presentation.
So, I enjoy watching the superior presentation at home, whether it was on my G70, or on my new digital... Both are far superior to even the 35mm presentation I was used to seeing at any typical cineplex.
As for the digital, as Hog pointed out, some are actually quite good, and without any of the artifacts that nearly all film presentations had. The last few shows I've been to have been excellent.
70mm IMAX is one thing, but I really don't miss film at the cineplex the way some of you do... I don't think some of you are being that realistic about how good it actually was.
SC |
You reminded me why I don't like to go to the theater. When I saw Wall Street with Itai, Seaton, Darin and Steve after Cedia, it was out of focus. I went and told them to focus it and clean the freaking lens. Neither was done.
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Curt Palme
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:34 am Post subject: |
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Of course nothing was done. Everyone is too afraid to touch their new state of the art projectors.
I posted a few months ago, I saw a theatre that was crap, but instantly got 2 free tickets. I will be going back soon to see if the techs have come back to rework the set. If not, I'll get more free tix.
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AnalogRocks
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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SC, you can have your 1080p you digital traitor!!
IMAX was born in Toronto, so over the last 20+ something years I have had MANY opportunities to see IMAX films. I've seen many a great 35mm film presentation too. I'm usually there in the first day or two so the film isn't to beat up yet.
BUT
You know I never did have problems with a " good ol' " 35mm well worn print of a movie. I like it! It's like those old shorts you should have thrown away years ago but are just too comfortable to get rid of.
I was all ready and keyed up to go see Batman on IMAX film tonight when I found out it was LIE-MAX instead:
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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| AnalogRocks wrote: | | I love the look of Bluray into my RPTV at 1080i or into my Ampro, especially on the smaller screen I use. CRT blacks with a gamma bump. Mmmmmm ( Homer drooling ) |
Mmmm ill be drooling to ... lol..
Let the non droolers go digital, so there will be more CRT parts for us.. 
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AnalogRocks
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:30 am Post subject: |
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I have opened the screen door and seen the light!
I emailed IMAX and asked them which theatres still project film.
Scotia Bank Theatre,
259 Richmond Street West
Toronto
ON, M5V 3M6
(416)368-5600
What a difference! 5 story screen and they also switched aspect ratios when the film went IMAX!
The digital projection I saw last Saturday didn't even bother to switch from 2.35:1!
This made it a whole different movie! I was immersed in the film and actually found some scenes so enthralling I was getting emotional.
AND the detail, ohh the detail! I could see the fine hairs on the side of the actresses face. I love it!
Digital be damned!
Give me film or my money you get not!
As always; AnalogRocks!
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:36 am Post subject: |
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| AnalogRocks wrote: | | I emailed IMAX and asked them which theatres still project film. |
Here's a listing of all IMAX theaters in the US, broken down by format (15-perf/10-perf/8-perf 70mm or digital):
http://www.lfexaminer.com/theaUSA.htm
Same thing, but international:
http://www.lfexaminer.com/theaintl.htm
The listing is updated fairly regularly and in my experience has been accurate.
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| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| AnalogRocks wrote: | I have opened the screen door and seen the light!
I emailed IMAX and asked them which theatres still project film.
Scotia Bank Theatre,
259 Richmond Street West
Toronto
ON, M5V 3M6
(416)368-5600
What a difference! 5 story screen and they also switched aspect ratios when the film went IMAX!
The digital projection I saw last Saturday didn't even bother to switch from 2.35:1!
This made it a whole different movie! I was immersed in the film and actually found some scenes so enthralling I was getting emotional.
AND the detail, ohh the detail! I could see the fine hairs on the side of the actresses face. I love it!
Digital be damned!
Give me film or my money you get not!
As always; AnalogRocks! |
No way I am shocked. 
| HogPilot wrote: | | AnalogRocks wrote: | | I emailed IMAX and asked them which theatres still project film. |
Here's a listing of all IMAX theaters in the US, broken down by format (15-perf/10-perf/8-perf 70mm or digital):
http://www.lfexaminer.com/theaUSA.htm
Same thing, but international:
http://www.lfexaminer.com/theaintl.htm
The listing is updated fairly regularly and in my experience has been accurate. |
Most of the ones I see are digital. The film ones seem to be in the museums. If I go back to Atlanta, then I see there is still a film option at the Mall of Ga by Wan.
I saw Crapatar in 3D at a digital Imax and it wasn't bad. I also saw Star Trek and that wasn't bad either, but I was on the back row.
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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Spanky Ham wrote: | | AnalogRocks wrote: | I have opened the screen door and seen the light!
I emailed IMAX and asked them which theatres still project film.
Scotia Bank Theatre,
259 Richmond Street West
Toronto
ON, M5V 3M6
(416)368-5600
What a difference! 5 story screen and they also switched aspect ratios when the film went IMAX!
The digital projection I saw last Saturday didn't even bother to switch from 2.35:1!
This made it a whole different movie! I was immersed in the film and actually found some scenes so enthralling I was getting emotional.
AND the detail, ohh the detail! I could see the fine hairs on the side of the actresses face. I love it!
Digital be damned!
Give me film or my money you get not!
As always; AnalogRocks! |
No way I am shocked.
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I'm shocked anybody can stand the crap assed digital projection. I'm at the movies to see a great big picture. Not screen door pixels. That is just a rip off. It gets in the way of the movie too. I know realize how much after seeing Batman3 on digital on Saturday and IMAX film on Thursday.
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| AnalogRocks wrote: | | Spanky Ham wrote: | | AnalogRocks wrote: | I have opened the screen door and seen the light!
I emailed IMAX and asked them which theatres still project film.
Scotia Bank Theatre,
259 Richmond Street West
Toronto
ON, M5V 3M6
(416)368-5600
What a difference! 5 story screen and they also switched aspect ratios when the film went IMAX!
The digital projection I saw last Saturday didn't even bother to switch from 2.35:1!
This made it a whole different movie! I was immersed in the film and actually found some scenes so enthralling I was getting emotional.
AND the detail, ohh the detail! I could see the fine hairs on the side of the actresses face. I love it!
Digital be damned!
Give me film or my money you get not!
As always; AnalogRocks! |
No way I am shocked.
|
I'm shocked anybody can stand the crap assed digital projection. I'm at the movies to see a great big picture. Not screen door pixels. That is just a rip off. It gets in the way of the movie too. I know realize how much after seeing Batman3 on digital on Saturday and IMAX film on Thursday. |
2K digital is okay in that respect when implemented properly in normal (i.e. 35mm-based) theaters. It's simply not sufficient for IMAX with the screen sizes and viewing distances involved. There's an interesting article on LF Examiner that talks about how 4K digital may be a "suitable" replacement for IMAX - based on what I've seen in my theater at home it should offer a drastic reduction of pixel structure visibility. I think 4K will be great in regular theaters, but I think IMAX will need 8K before it can return to what 70mm offered in terms of resolution.
_________________
| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
SC |
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Tinman
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Carson City Nevada
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| Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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I saw a movie in an Arclight cinema here in LA.
Honestly, I looked for reason to nitpick it, but the image was very good! No scratches, blacks were on par with film and I could not for the life of me see pixels. And I looked for them.
I think done right, it's a great experience.
Unfortunately I have also seen it done wrong many times. At the same time I have ALSO not enjoyed out of focus film, dirty prints, wrong aspect ratio lens used, and the light left on in the projection booth. So much for that great "film" experience. Seems no one actually cares any more.
And in my own life I have gone digital. It does many things better at this point, and even better technology is inevitable.
Marc
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AnalogRocks
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| Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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We have some very high calibre theaters here in Toronto. I have NEVER seen the stuff you guys have, except a worn print, with all the films I've been to in the last 28 years. I guess I'm spoiled.
I'd say I was picking nits but it's more like picking cows out of a downtown crowd. Flaws to obvious to ignore.
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
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| Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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Other than the one horribly aligned unit that I saw here this spring, I too would say the digital experience is better than what we had with film. I think anyone here can instantly tell whether you're looking at film or digital for sure, and kudos to those that save their money and don't go to the movies any more. I still do, but maybe 3-4 times a year tops.
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