CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

WanMan · Joined: 19 Mar 2006 Posts: 10270

After calibration everything sounds good with the exception of dialog. I've compared regular Dolby 5.1 and TrueHD, and regular DTS and DTS-HDMA and in all cases (with the exception of stereo-only content) the dialog in moves seems low. Not really low, but a tad. I'm thinking of boosting the CC signal 3-6 dB.

Wife and I watched three movies in the theater yesterday. Fun times!

akajester · Joined: 09 Jul 2008 Posts: 934 Location: Wisconsin

Wan, funny you should mention this. In my setup when it's all level it seemed like the dialog was too low for my liking.

I believe I made a 3-5 dB adjustment on my center channel too and it was perfect.

In the end, the sound is perfect when you like it, not when the meter says so. Smile

Dale

**kal** · Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 2:19 pm Post subject:

IIRC it's fairly common for people to run the center just slightly 'hotter' than the others for this exact reason.

Kal

dturco · Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 2:58 pm Post subject:

I did it differently. I placed a cap on the output of THX, so no speaker could ever go past that limit. Then I lowered the front channels 3.5 db and left the center and rears at the pre set levels.

Same effect, the center is louder then it was but, no one could over drive my speakers by accident this way.

They were overdriven once....in the classic, your on vacation and the kids have a house party and the boyfriend keeps playing it louder until... pop goes the center.

Christ, 500w a channel and he couldn't find the right level of listening pain? Douche.

So after that I put the limiters in place and locked out the adjustment menus.

Either way works but sending to much juice to the center can have unwanted effects.

WanMan · Joined: 19 Mar 2006 Posts: 10270

We haven't really watched much in the theater that would be considered low-volume. It might be fine as-is for something other than action movies. I'll try +3 dB today and see how it turns out. I can say the wife and I are finding the LFE comical in how it can definitely be heard two floors up. No complaints!

greg_mitch · Joined: 03 May 2006 Posts: 5320

I haven't run Audyssey yet, but did you ever think it is a function of your center channel speaker?

I used to run the center hot too and when I got a better center channel (vifa tweeter) it opened up the dialog like nothing I had done for it before.

Now...when I say better...I don't mean more expensive....just better for dialog in my ears.

I now have three identical speakers across the front and they are installed directly behind the screen so the install height also helps my dialog.

WanMan · Joined: 19 Mar 2006 Posts: 10270

My previous usage of the same speakers with the Pioneer Elite AVR did not suggest a limiting condition, and I'm sitting in about the same distance as I was before. The Pioneer was replaced with the Denon+Emotiva setup and MCAAC being replaced with Audyssey. I'm inclined it to be something in the new setup, but who knows.

dturco · Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 12:50 am Post subject:

WanMan · Joined: 19 Mar 2006 Posts: 10270

Many years ago when I was looking for justification to buy my old Pioneer Elite AVR I compared it to the Denon equivalent. At the time, the Elite VSX-45TX units were leaving the factory with an overly-sensitive protection circuit. It was really easy to get the AVR to shut itself down. I looked for such a thing on the Denon AVR (again, at the time), and no such luck.

Standing there in HiFi Buys, the Denon unit was connected to Klipsch RF speakers. We turned the volume up until it hurt our ears and that did not drive the AVR into protection mode. At that point the salesperson grabbed the cable pair going to one of the front main speakers and closed the circuit--effectively shorting it. Still, the receiver did not go into protect mode.

So, was the Denon truly without a self-protection means? I wonder about this, and the mentality that drives design in AVR units.

jeffslife · Joined: 17 Apr 2010 Posts: 4190 Location: ohio usa

I replaced my old kenwood with a cheap denon AVR 1910 to get hdmi inputs and the HD master format.
I immediatly had to change my center because dialogue was muddy.
Later I discovered the speaker protection, I have been adjusting to try to get more volume ever since.
Hopefully later this year I can replace the Denon with ANYTHING else.
The overall audio is ok, not great but ok, It has a decent soundstage but about 40% of the volume I prefer.

ecrabb · Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:42 pm Post subject:

dturco · Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:31 pm Post subject:

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 5:10 pm Post subject:

One thing people forget as well is speaker efficiency. Klipsch can be driven to ear splitting levels with a 10 watt amp. Bose speakers are notoriously inefficient, which is why Bose finally came out with high power amps (that were complete crap originally) to drive the 901 speakers. Later Bose amps were Carver PM 1.5s modified to take the Bose eq cards right within the amp.

WanMan · Joined: 19 Mar 2006 Posts: 10270

Curt, I understand that, but that doesn't account for the shorting of the speaker cable and the amp continued.

wallace123456 · Joined: 14 Aug 2006 Posts: 2236 Location: Northwest VA area

For me, I have a hard time hearing center channel dialogue in movie theaters although it has been years since I have been to a theater, but I assume it is still the same way.

I am using an Onkyo TX-SR806 and driving the left/right mains with a NAD 2200. The Audyssey sound processing in the Onkyo seems to work well and the center volume is good. That is using the Audyssey sound set-up.

But, I understand what you mean about low center (dialogue) volumes.

wallace

WanMan · Joined: 19 Mar 2006 Posts: 10270

These Paradigm speakers use identical tweeter and mid-rage drivers across the board. The only difference is the FR/FL also have woofer drivers. First, it concluded FR = FL = CC in terms of size. Audyssey disturbs me when I think about its drawn conclusions.

FR = FR physically with 1xT+1xM+2xW. The CC physically is 2xT+1xM. Each surround is 2xT+2xM. Yet, the FR/FL/CC are classified by Audyssey as Large and each Surround as Small. Audyssey is implying 2xT+1xM > 2xT+2xM for speaker size determination. Is this because of distance to the calibration microphone?

If the amplification is symmetric then the only way to deliver varying amounts of power to the speakers is by varying the signal level, no? Yet, Audyssey set the signal level to all channels to '-6 dB'. So, with the exception of how the channels are engineered and mastered on the content, the signal level, and thus the amplification, of all channels is identical.

But I cannot get over how the interpretation between size of the Surrounds and the center compared to the mains. This makes me head spin. Shocked

dturco · Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:16 pm Post subject:

The "physical size" of the speaker is not important. What all surround sound systems are concerned with is the speakers ability to deliver signals below 50 or 40 HZ. It's that frequency response it's looking for to determine the characteristics of your speakers. Although it's really 80hz that is most likely the default setting.

A Pretty good read for you.

http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/get-good-bass/bass-management-basics-2013-settings-made-simple

Ron W · Joined: 07 Aug 2009 Posts: 860 Location: Mississauga