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J Kildare
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:09 am Post subject: Marquee - static convergence troubleshooting |
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I'm stumped.....I've got good stig and flare with convergence and stig unplugged and rasters are centered. Curt has checked hdm and Dragnm has recapped and tested control board. All other boards have been recapped. I can line up my outside lines and green is center with red and blue about 1-1/8 to each side. Now if I plug in convergence board the red goes so far right that I run out of convergence and still have about 3/4" to get it centered.
I have a second board I can put in but before I do I was wondering, can I unplug the ribbon cable to the convergence and test for drifting this way first?
Also can I swap hdm cables?
This is really pi$$ing me off 
Thanks
Jim
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Tim in Phoenix
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4409
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:28 am Post subject: |
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Hello
Static convergence comes thru the HDM, did you mix up your H yoke cables?
.
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J Kildare
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:55 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Tim, but no.
This has been an ongoing problem. I usually don't unplug stig and convergence and missed the fact that red is so far off.
Dynamic is great but follows static.
Do you know if I can unplug the convergence ribbon cable?
Thanks
Jim
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:17 am Post subject: |
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Ok, lets start from scratch.
First i would not disconnect the convergence yokes yet.
Plug them in and go to the service menu and initialize the set.
Astig can be unplugged.
Now put up a grid and look to see where they are in relation to each other ....AND also to see if they are centered on the tube face.
If they are centered on the tube face then you need to loosen the tube mounting plates and swing the tubes so the grids line up in the center or close to it.
If the grids are not centered you need to mechanically center it with the focus coil and the CPC magnets, this should be done with the convergence yoke connected.
After you get that look to see if the hight of the grids are even, if not go to the service menu and make the red and blue match the greens hight.
Now you can begin geometry and convergence.
Athanasios
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:23 am Post subject: |
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| J Kildare wrote: |
Do you know if I can unplug the convergence ribbon cable?
Thanks
Jim |
Yes, but why would you need to?
Based on what you've indicated, the problem should not be caused from the convergence board being plugged in or out.
As Tim has pointed out, the HDM should be the only board to caused the grid to shift left or right.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:33 am Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | Ok, lets start from scratch.
First i would not disconnect the convergence yokes yet.
Plug them in and go to the service menu and initialize the set.
Astig can be unplugged.
Now put up a grid and look to see where they are in relation to each other ....AND also to see if they are centered on the tube face.
If they are centered on the tube face then you need to loosen the tube mounting plates and swing the tubes so the grids line up in the center or close to it.
If the grids are not centered you need to mechanically center it with the focus coil and the CPC magnets, this should be done with the convergence yoke connected.
After you get that look to see if the hight of the grids are even, if not go to the service menu and make the red and blue match the greens hight.
Now you can begin geometry and convergence.
Athanasios |
No no no. Look back over what he wrote in the first post:
| Quote: | | ..I've got good stig and flare with convergence and stig unplugged and rasters are centered |
He needs to fix a problem without screwing with his setup. If he plays with his setup without finding the problem first, things will be worse once the problem is found. The rasters are already centered and playing with CPC magnets and such would also throw off the stig and already setup mechanical alignments!
Jim, Tim was putting you on the right track, stay with that. Your problem is electrical as Tim was indicating...
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J Kildare
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:44 am Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | Ok, lets start from scratch.
First i would not disconnect the convergence yokes yet.
Plug them in and go to the service menu and initialize the set.
Astig can be unplugged.
Now put up a grid and look to see where they are in relation to each other ....AND also to see if they are centered on the tube face.
If they are centered on the tube face then you need to loosen the tube mounting plates and swing the tubes so the grids line up in the center or close to it.
If the grids are not centered you need to mechanically center it with the focus coil and the CPC magnets, this should be done with the convergence yoke connected.
After you get that look to see if the hight of the grids are even, if not go to the service menu and make the red and blue match the greens hight.
Now you can begin geometry and convergence.
Athanasios |
Sorry I should have mentioned, it has been fully initialized. This has been done many times, trust me the basics have been looked after. I run a little less than 1080p thru vp50 @ 72 hz with no jailbars and only slightest hint of banding on an all white screen. Dots all focus 0-100 with very little movement left to right and less than 3/16 in the up down direction.
I think I'm going to let this puppy warm up and hit convegence and hdm with some super cold.
Thanks
Jim
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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J Kildare
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:50 am Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | J Kildare wrote: |
Do you know if I can unplug the convergence ribbon cable?
Thanks
Jim |
Yes, but why would you need to?
Based on what you've indicated, the problem should not be caused from the convergence board being plugged in or out.
As Tim has pointed out, the HDM should be the only board to caused the grid to shift left or right. |
Mike,
If I unplug the ribbon cable and static convergence still moves would that not isolate the problem to the hdm?
I was just looking thru your original maintenance thread where you suggested pushing on the convergence and hdm to isolate drifting problems. I should also try that.
Thanks,
Jim
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J Kildare
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:53 am Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | Im sure you have checked this but, is the convergence cable connected the right way for the red and or is it damaged? Swap the convergence cable to one of the other tubes and see if the grid moves on that tube or if the red still moves.
Athanasios |
Will check this also.
Thanks
Jim
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:59 am Post subject: |
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| J Kildare wrote: | | mp20748 wrote: | | J Kildare wrote: |
Do you know if I can unplug the convergence ribbon cable?
Thanks
Jim |
Yes, but why would you need to?
Based on what you've indicated, the problem should not be caused from the convergence board being plugged in or out.
As Tim has pointed out, the HDM should be the only board to caused the grid to shift left or right. |
Mike,
If I unplug the ribbon cable and static convergence still moves would that not isolate the problem to the hdm?
I was just looking thru your original maintenance thread where you suggested pushing on the convergence and hdm to isolate drifting problems. I should also try that.
Thanks,
Jim |
The convergence plug in no way should be causing this problem. The HDM is what shifts the grid from left to right. The convergence board should only effect the zones around the static zone (center).
What I think would be a good way of getting to the bottom of this would be to see if your convergence zones are working. That would allow us to determine if your convergence board is functioning properly or at all.
It's OK to un-plug your convergence board while the set is operating, but don't plug it back up while it's operating.
If after checking to see if your convergence board is working propery, pull the plug and see if the grid (static) moves while the set is still on.
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J Kildare
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:18 am Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | J Kildare wrote: | | mp20748 wrote: | | J Kildare wrote: |
Do you know if I can unplug the convergence ribbon cable?
Thanks
Jim |
Yes, but why would you need to?
Based on what you've indicated, the problem should not be caused from the convergence board being plugged in or out.
As Tim has pointed out, the HDM should be the only board to caused the grid to shift left or right. |
Mike,
If I unplug the ribbon cable and static convergence still moves would that not isolate the problem to the hdm?
I was just looking thru your original maintenance thread where you suggested pushing on the convergence and hdm to isolate drifting problems. I should also try that.
Thanks,
Jim |
The convergence plug in no way should be causing this problem. The HDM is what shifts the grid from left to right. The convergence board should only effect the zones around the static zone (center).
What I think would be a good way of getting to the bottom of this would be to see if your convergence zones are working. That would allow us to determine if your convergence board is functioning properly or at all.
It's OK to un-plug your convergence board while the set is operating, but don't plug it back up while it's operating.
If after checking to se if your convergence board is working propery, plug the plug and see if the grid (static) moves while the set is till on. |
Mike
Dynamic and static function properly. Static drifts and with it the whole grid.
In your last check we are talking ribbon cable and not yokes... right?
Thanks for the help
Jim
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:19 am Post subject: |
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Yes, pull the ribbon cable!
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J Kildare
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:58 am Post subject: |
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Ribbon cable pulled with less than 1/16 movement and all colors exactly converged as before I pulled it.
Jim
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:26 am Post subject: |
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| J Kildare wrote: | Ribbon cable pulled with less than 1/16 movement and all colors exactly converged as before I pulled it.
Jim |
Can you provide a picture of this, one showing the before and after.
Also, can you describe if you're having unusual drift or if the drifting happens only with the convergence connector in place.
Here's a little something on drifting:
It's common to some degree on every display technology, that is any technology that dissipates heat, and has heat involved in either optics or panels and electronics.
It's also present on three chip DLP projectors....and here's something that'll make your day. Even some of my best and latest digital technology lamp projectors used in blending and other large multi-screen display technology also has drifting and I've seen it worse than on CRT on blend setups.
Bottom line, drifting is normal to some degree. The best way to "minimize" it is through proper setup.
I have setups with late model VDC CRT projectors used in multi-display blending that drift more than some of the other setups that still has the original Marquee projectors that has very high hours on them but turns out to be more related to setup. And when challenged to solve a drifting problem on one of these projectors that has an unusual amount of drifting, the problem is usually the LVPS, HDM or VDM. and the biggest problem is usually the contacts on the HDM or solder joints on the relays and coils. On the VDM, it's usually the 1 ohm resistors or 3 output IC's require a better contact to the heatsink. On the LVPS, sometime you have to replace it, because when they cause drifting it's because they are not maintaining the current as they should. I've yet to find what causes them to have an unstable voltage out.
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J Kildare
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 1:07 am Post subject: |
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Sorry about the crappy pics my camera crapped out... now using the trust Iphone.
Complete initialization with convergence yokes unplugged, skew and linearity added.
Convergence yokes plugged in
Green stig and flare with convergence and stig coils unplugged. Blue and red are similar.
Jim
Last edited by J Kildare on Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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J Kildare
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 1:12 am Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | J Kildare wrote: | Ribbon cable pulled with less than 1/16 movement and all colors exactly converged as before I pulled it.
Jim |
Can you provide a picture of this, one showing the before and after.
Also, can you describe if you're having unusual drift or if the drifting happens only with the convergence connector in place.
Here's a little something on drifting:
It's common to some degree on every display technology, that is any technology that dissipates heat, and has heat involved in either optics or panels and electronics.
It's also present on three chip DLP projectors....and here's something that'll make your day. Even some of my best and latest digital technology lamp projectors used in blending and other large multi-screen display technology also has drifting and I've seen it worse than on CRT on blend setups.
Bottom line, drifting is normal to some degree. The best way to "minimize" it is through proper setup.
I have setups with late model VDC CRT projectors used in multi-display blending that drift more than some of the other setups that still has the original Marquee projectors that has very high hours on them but turns out to be more related to setup. And when challenged to solve a drifting problem on one of these projectors that has an unusual amount of drifting, the problem is usually the LVPS, HDM or VDM. and the biggest problem is usually the contacts on the HDM or solder joints on the relays and coils. On the VDM, it's usually the 1 ohm resistors or 3 output IC's require a better contact to the heatsink. On the LVPS, sometime you have to replace it, because when they cause drifting it's because they are not maintaining the current as they should. I've yet to find what causes them to have an unstable voltage out. |
Mike
When I said 1/16 movement the convergence and stig coils were already disconnected. Not sure if you wanted them connected but I can take a pic both ways if you want.
I am going to change out lv power supply and see if that makes a difference.
When plugging in convergence red is far enough off that I run out of convergence to center it.
Thanks
Jim
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Tim in Phoenix
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4409
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 1:31 am Post subject: |
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Guys!
I am beginning to smell a control board problem; red is acting like there is a zone at mid-screen where only static should be enabled......?
.
Last edited by Tim in Phoenix on Fri Mar 26, 2010 1:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 1:32 am Post subject: |
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Well, it's not an offset problem, because it's only on RED. That would also rule out the LVPS.
What to look at next is the convergence board and CLM.... it's one of the two.
Since you already have a convergence board, try it. If the problem is still there, your CLM is suspect.
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J Kildare
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 2:20 am Post subject: |
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The convergence drifting is left to right or opposite, my horizontal seems fine.
I'm beginning to think 2 problems, drifting and static red. 
I have spare control, convergence, and lvps which I will change out and see if I can get rid of any of this, but I want to warm up the projector and test again because I think with convergence and stig removed blue does not move from cold to hot but red and green both move 1/8 to the right. Even though red and green move they do it together, but because blue does not, it looks the worst.
Not really sure, is 1/8" drift considered normal?
When setting up my magnetics, green did not move at all right through the ramp, but it drifts. Red and blue moved slightly up and down through the ramp and yet I think blue may be the most stable, hmmmmm.....
Jim
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