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km987654
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2874
Location: Australia
TV/Projector: Barco BG809s
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| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:22 am Post subject: G90 Green C element V Everyone elses |
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As I understand the green C element from a G90 is lighter than one from say a Barco or Marquee. So why the difference is the color balance on a G90 wrong? or shall I say different.
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jkruger
Joined: 24 Oct 2007
Posts: 2435
Location: Carlsbad, CA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:35 am Post subject: |
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I would think the C-element should be matched to the tube phosphor for it to be correct. Just my guess.
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Clarence
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 3827
Location: Smith Mtn Lake, VA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:18 am Post subject: |
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The original c-element is probably about 10% lighter. Probably a trade off for more light output (or longer tube life if run at a lower level to get the equivalent light output) instead of color gamut.
I replaced mine with the darker Marquee c-element.
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km987654
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2874
Location: Australia
TV/Projector: Barco BG809s
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| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 7:06 am Post subject: |
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| Clarence wrote: | The original c-element is probably about 10% lighter. Probably a trade off for more light output (or longer tube life if run at a lower level to get the equivalent light output) instead of color gamut.
I replaced mine with the darker Marquee c-element. |
After changing the C element would you say the result was better or even worth the change?
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Ile
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1491
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland
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| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:51 am Post subject: |
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You should see the difference in green primary, with stock element green have too much red.
With Marquee/Barco c-element green is closer to standard.
Took coordinates from this thread.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=693126
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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I always recommend to clients to change their G90 green c element for the darker Marquee version. With the Sony green C element the green is under saturated for HD Rec709. This means that any color on the screen containing a green component will have error and be under saturated with respect to the green. For the most realistic image the darker green c element must be used.
I worked for a client last week who had a G90 with the stock c element. I run the Marquee c element fin the G90 in my own theater so I am used to the correct look. The client's projector with the Sony green appears under saturated and everything look a little pale.
craigr
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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Many years ago I also calculated the deltaE for the Sony green c and the marquee green c. Here is the math that proves the error.
craigr
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km987654
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2874
Location: Australia
TV/Projector: Barco BG809s
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| Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:22 am Post subject: |
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So Sony really did get it wrong!!
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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No, Sony made an informed market based decision to increase the output at the expense of colour fidelity.
Barco didn't filter anything unless it was a Cine Series. Electrohome went halfway.
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| km987654 wrote: | | So Sony really did get it wrong!! |
Also, the G90 is a multisync projector, not an HDTV. A multisync sync projector does not conform to HDTV color standards because by nature the colors are not defined (multiple color standards). Furthermore, Rec709 was not finalized when the design of the G90 was being completed, so even if Sony had wanted to meet Rec709, they wouldn't have known what it actually was.
We are using these projectors for HDTV, so we should want to conform to the industry standard for Rec709. I don't like the argument put forth by some that we should leave the projectors with their original gamut. Because as Mark says,
| Mark_A_W wrote: | | No, Sony made an informed market based decision to increase the output at the expense of colour fidelity. |
The G90 was designed for a broad array of applications. Many of these applications required brightness over saturation. Because of this, Sony went towards brightness instead of a larger color gamut. That does not mean at all that with our applications in HD home theaters we should just blindly follow Sony's design for multiple applications. We have a single application now and to get the best colors we need a gamut that can produce all the colors defined under Rec709. The only way to do that on a G90 is to put in the darker c element.
craigr
_________________
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Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
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Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
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Phone: 865-405-6892
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