CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[Shoujiki]

OK guys, this is a little debate I've had with many over the years. Tell me your views and opinions.

While discussing screen sizes here with a few people (BTW, thanks for the input! I learn so much), it seems that a lot compromise in size for quality. It's a balance and your looking for the best possible picture you can.

Now, while i agree with this as being a great method for a home theater setup, i find that these compromises are only relative to what you have experienced in the past. Let's take a few examples so i can fully get my point across.

Firstly, there's a company near me called AudioTrends. They deal in super high end audio equipment (and video stuff too). You walk in there, into there many dedicated and different listening rooms and theater rooms where they show off all there products. They have all kinds of high end gear like Denon, NAD, Arcam, Cambridge Audio and heaps of other "audiophile grade" stuff. Now i bought 3 Vincent SP997 mono-block amps from them, for my front stage. They sound awesome and have so much power and clarity on my AAD speakers. Now i listen to one of there setups .. take for example, a mono class valve amp from Rotel. Retail for $2000 EACH, they had 3 of them across the front stage, with a speaker package nearing the $10-15k mark. Yes it sounded fantastic, yet it was awesome to listen to...when i went home though, you know my speakers and amps sounded "just as good" to me. I could not really perceive any difference unless i heard them side by side. I'm sure though, that if i heard the other setup a few times and really listened, i could nit pick my own system (my mono's were $1k each and speakers were $1.2k a pair, big difference to there's). The point is that i don't and will not dable in those kinds of things because i simply cannot afford them, and furthermore, even if i could, don't think that there is a big a difference between them to justify a 10x price tag.

People use digital projectors that cost $50k+, people use stacked G90's,, 9500Ultra's and on screens that cost $5k+ (read Art's screen must of cost at least $10k .. for JUST the screen, let alone his projection setup ...) Now that is all well and good, and i think those setups are totally amazing. They blow you away. However, the price involved to get that effect they have is hefty. Too hefty for me. I sit in my lounge and watch my humble 1272, and you know, it looks fantastic to me. If i were able to go to Art's house and watch his setup all day, I'd come home to my setup and be disappointed I'm sure, but the point is i don't. I don't compare my setup to ones costing $50k+ and therefore cannot relate it to them. Therefore it looks great to me. I don't put it up side by side with something and say which is better.

I also drive a Mustang here in Australia. Now it's my pride and joy and for me, drives great. Putting aside character and all that, if i jumped into a Porsche, which will out handle, out brake, out accelerate and all that in every way the Mustang, i would jump into the Mustang and feel it was then lacking in comparison. I don't though, i don't compare and i just drive it for what it is and enjoy it.

I hope my point is getting across. All things are relative. Relative to your experience. If you worked in an industry selling $50k+ projectors, then I'm sure everything under that would be "meh". if you sold Ferrari's, I'm sure also you'd think that something like a Skyline or Mustang were, sub standard (just an example!). Comparing things side by side will always show up one that is better in some aspect. I don't do that because i know my little 1272 (that i got for $800) will not perform in any way better than something costing 10x the price like a you beaut G90. I'd love one, but cannot afford one, and therefore make do with what i have. I have a particular "dream" or "idea" in mind of a large screen, and therefore, will compromise the quality slightly to achieve that. I don't have a "dream" of having super sharp HD image on my wall, that's why i have a full HD 1080P 60" plasma.

Anyways, chime in, I'd love to hear others take on it. What drives you to do what you do?

(BTW This is such an awesome community or people, and I'm grateful for everyone's help and ideas, a great bunch of guys.)

-Kurt.

[Spanky Ham]

I have stated this for awhile and I prefer the term threshold. Everyone has a certain threshold where something is good enough or they don't perceive any difference. As you mentioned it happens with everything in life.

In audio, I used to chase the high end, but I think it is a lot of marketing BS. I have kind of reverted in the other direction. I came to the conclusion after talking with Darinp and him telling me he just didn't get high end audio even after listening to a bunch of them. Then Curt went to Darin's and said he was impressed by the sound of his average audio set up. This had me thinking and then I compared my PSB Stratus Golds to DIY speakers (HTguides RS TMWWs). I could hear some differences, but not much. The DIY owner said he could hear a big difference. For me, that pretty much ended my pursuit of high end audio. I still kind of follow the changes in sound formats, but I don't follow all of the other stuff. When I get permanently settled again, I would probably consider the Audyssey DSX as that seemed interesting, but I wouldn't go extreme on anything else. For the speakers, I would probably go DIY kit like John Krutke's new kit or something in the mold of Jon Marsh's Modula Neos.

In video, I like the look of CRT and can see the difference, but that margin has narrowed considerably to digital. I know this is a CRT website and most people here are CRT lovers and not video agnostic, which there is nothing wrong with that. For me, having seen the latest JVCs I could definitely replace a CRT with one. CRTs still win in on/off and motion resolution, but the JVC has enough on/off that I would only miss it occasionally. The motion resolution is still a problem, but for me it isn't that bad. I once hypothesized that 20k to 1 on/off would satisfy all but the diehards in the CRT world. I am curious if that has held true. I know there are a bunch of ex-CRTers that have moved to digital for a lot less on/off. Another threshold in the CRT world is 8" and 9" along with LC. For me, the difference between 8" and 9" isn't as great as that from AC to LC.

On screen size, it all comes down to how much light output you can live with. I prefer a bright image closer to or over the 17 ft/lmbs spec, which is why I went with a small screen. Again when I get a permanent home, I will probably do a DIY version of the Vutec UHG screen. I get brightness and a large screen. Of course, if I don't do it soon, then I may just wind up with a LED pj.

[ecrabb]

Kurt, you make some really good points, and in general, I'd agree with most of what you're expressing. I'll just a make a couple of points, though.

First, going to see Art's setup... Just like you said, I thought I'd come home and be disappointed in my system after seeing how awesome his was. Interestingly, it actually had the opposite effect. Knowing what he had to spend to achieve his results (as absolutely awesome as they are), it actually made me appreciate my system that much more, knowing full well what *I* spent. Yes, his room is huge, screen is huge, it's scope, the PQ is gorgeous, the sound is incredible (there's nothing like the "big room" sound, and you just can't get it in a small room), but if I had to put some sort of relative value on things, I'd say I've achieved maybe 30% of what he has, but at well under 10% of the price. So, no - you don't have to spend a fortune to get great performance and genuinely enjoy your setup.

But, on the whole screen size thing... Yeah, if you want a big screen, nobody can stop you - go for it. But, the reason we make recommendations to stay at around a certain size, isn't to be snobs - it's for a specific reason! One of the best things about CRT is on/off contrast. Now, the bigger you make the screen, the dimmer it gets, and with it goes on/off contrast. In the process, you have to drive the projector even harder, causing blooming (softness) and wearing the tubes MUCH faster. Now, if you think you can live with a soft, fuzzy, dim picture, and frying your tubes in a year or two instead of them lasting much longer, well then, more power to you! Personally, I couldn't do that. I love a big picture, too - but, I enjoy the awesome on/off contrast, rich vivid color, and pretty decent sharpness to go much larger than I already am.

SC

[cmjohnson]

I'm into high end audio and video. Both. But on a limited budget.

I worked and lucked my way into a very high end audio setup. Krell monoblock power amps feed a pair of Aerial Acoustics 10Ts for the
L/R main speakers. All bought used, but I heard the speakers (the exact pair I own) on demo at the local high end audio store around
1996. They put my jaw on the floor and I knew I had to have a set. I didn't know how, where, or when, but I would have a set.
Inside of three years I had that exact pair, bought from the original owner for a third of their retail price, roughly.

I've heard speakers four times as expensive (JM Labs Utopias, 30,000 bucks a pair, vs my 7700 dollar a pair Aerials) and to this day
say that the Aerials are better sounding to my ears.

I have yet to hear anything I like better.

I have a well modded Marquee 9500LC shooting a picture onto a 20 dollar sheet of masonite, painted with Behr ultra flat ultra white
paint, sprayed on, and I have yet to see anyone else's picture that I think is any better.


I could spend more but why would I? It's beyond doubt that I reached my threshold of satisfaction a long time ago.

I don't NEED a 10,000 dollar screen or stacked G90s or a 120,000 dollar pair of speakers. I'm HAPPY with what I have, and would not
spend more to get better, particularly when I question if I'd place any value on the difference.

I guess I'm not really a true audiophile, because it seems that true audiophiles suffer from the upgrade bug. I haven't had a major
change to my audio system in ten years. I'm as satisfied with it today as on the day I first connected Krell amps to Aerial speakers.

It's also why I drive a 1992 Toyota Camry. It's comfortable, reliable, adequately fast for me, (it's a V6 LE model), it still looks good
(I repainted it myself about two years ago and did a nice job, if I do say so myself) and it's CHEAP to own. Everything a new car would
do for, me, this one does for me. So why bother to buy a new one when I'm happy with what I'm driving now?


Nobody should ever dictate the terms of your happiness to you.


CJ

[Nashou66]

I agree with everything everyone said here:

And love this Quote Chris

[cmjohnson]

I just came up with in that post, actually. I'm glad you like it. I'll sell you the rights for...a set of bellows!


CJ

[AnalogRocks]

[AnalogRocks]