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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:04 pm Post subject: Anyone use Western Digital Cavier GREEN drives in a RAID-1? |
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At this stage of my life, I only buy hard drives in multiples. For instance, I considered buying a pair of WDS10EADS Cavier Green drives (OEM) from Amazon yesterday for $69.99 delivered. But, I have never used the Green drives and I am not sure how they would operate in a RAID-1 (mirror) setup.
I tried to garner feedback from Anandtech, but nothing. Reading threads from their history it suggests Western Digital advises against RAID use. I just don't get it as a mirror setup the individual drive isn't being worked anymore than a non-RAID setup unless the controller is adding background activity beyond the mirroring of data.
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nombz
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 119
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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I am using 8 of those exact drives(1TB green EADS) in a raid 5 setup.
It works great and I am very happy with the low power usage (=the drives run cool).
Remember to use wdtler utility to fix the TLER "issue" (http://shifteightgeneration.com/content/wdtler-fix-tler-setting-wd-desktop-hard-drives). The recommendation not to use them in raid is because of the default setting of TLER that makes them unsuitable for RAID (AFAIK).
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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I'm pretty sure that WD uses those very mechanisms in their "My Book Studio" drives, which can be configured as either RAID-0 or RAID-1.
http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=410
I didn't like any of the inexpensive RAID-1 solutions that much though, so I decided to just buy two external drives and do backups. I just bought two WD external "Elements" drives for storage of photos and DV/HDV captures. I don't need uninterrupted uptime (RAID-1) as much as I just need backup in case of drive failure. So, I'll just use one drive and automatically write changes to the backup drive every day.
I like the slower spindle speed, lower power, and lower heat dissipation of the green drives. These drives are so fast for general use, they're more than adequate.
SC
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | I'm pretty sure that WD uses those very mechanisms in their "My Book Studio" drives, which can be configured as either RAID-0 or RAID-1.
http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=410
I didn't like any of the inexpensive RAID-1 solutions that much though, so I decided to just buy two external drives and do backups.
SC |
Yep...I agree 100%,. Raid is way over rated IMO, I've never had them work as advertised. Unless in a corporate setting with regular backups that are monitored regularly. My luck has always been when one drives fail in the array it takes out the good drives data. Raid 5 is even worse pure suicidal.
2 weeks ago one of my remaining clients I still support from when I was doing IT consulting full time had a drive die on a raid 5 array took out the whole array..Worse yet happened during the backup, so he lost a days data.
RAID IS NOT A SUBSTITUTE FOR A BACKUP!!
My Media server has just simple NTFS volumes. Media Browser lets you pool all drives together as one volume and can sort the files "six ways from sunday" by genre, actor, director or studio. Which seems to work out well... If I loose a drive, no big deal I just re-rip from the original disks.
Mike
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Last edited by MikeEby on Sat Nov 28, 2009 4:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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Exactly... RAID-1 is really for uptime/availability - something important to enterprise users. But, since I don't think anybody is doing anything that mission critical/time sensitive at home, I'm not sure RAID-1 really accomplishes that much. If you have to do backups anyway, what's the point? Who cares if you have to take a volume offline for a half a day to restore a volume?
I had to explain this to a friend of mine just a few weeks ago... He bought a RAID-1 setup and sounded pretty cavalier about it, and I reminded him he still needed to backup, and he said, "Why? If a drive fails, I still have a copy of everything - that's my backup. That's the point of RAID." I said, "Oh, really?", then asked, "So, what happens to your "copy" if you accidentally delete a folder full of stuff, something corrupts a folder full of stuff (or God forbid, the entire 1TB volume), or even if the power supply in the RAID dies?" Dead silence. Guess what's on his RAID with no backups? Just all the images he shoots for his entire stock/photo business. I told him to at least buy a third drive and start doing backups. At least.
The only way I'd use RAID-1 is for a media server with rips of stuff I already own and can re-rip. In that case, the convenience of automatic disk rebuilds is worth the risk of corruption or loss.
SC
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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IMO the cost of keeping mirrored drives running is cost prohibitive in a home setting. I have 5TB of storage across 3 drives (2)1.5TB (5400 RPM) (1) 2 TB (7200 RPM) for only 200 Blu-ray rips. The motherboard on my media server has 10 SATA ports. From here on out the smallest drive I will buy is 2TB, so that will give me about 19TB, enough to last me for a while but I'm only adding drives as I need them so the 3TB may be reasonable when actually I need them.
It's just too cool to have 200+ HD movies available with a few clicks on the remote.
Mike
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:50 am Post subject: |
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So, you guys are suggesting that maybe instead of using RAID at all it is better to just Copy from disk to disk? If you cannot count on the hardware RAID solution then software (OS) seems more preferential, no? Ir, is this also not to be trusted?
Anyway, now that someone has spoken up--and in due course, I'll order some more drives. So, 1TB for $69.99, or 1.5TB for $89.99?
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nombz
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 119
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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Raid is never nor tries to be a substitute for backup.
It is however a safer way than a single drive to store data.
I have had drives fail previous in my software raid-5 (linux with mdadm) and I have never lost any data. Maybe I am just lucky, but to be honest, I dont think so. For more "important" data such as document and photos, I copy them manually to an external USB drive about every month (and I keep the external drive at my workingplace, so the backup is "physically" separated from the raid).
But as far as the drives go, thumbs up 
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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Too late. Spent way too much time playing cell phone shopper for the wife and missed the deal on 1.5TB for $89.
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:27 am Post subject: |
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Newegg had the deal with free shipping.
Interesting info about the raid.
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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Surprisingly, Amazon raised their price on the 1.5TB WD Green drives for Cyber-Monday. It went back down today so I ordered a couple.
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Boomi21
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| Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 5:01 am Post subject: |
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I will read time to time that
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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This is the thread I was looking for when my best friend was singing the praises of RAID.
Instead of RAID, I am switching back and forth between hard drives.
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 7:24 am Post subject: |
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I have zero problems using these drives in this configuration and also in an external docking bay.
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David_Web
Joined: 02 May 2007
Posts: 418
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 9:57 am Post subject: |
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The only RAID I would use is RAID-Z as it provides 100% resilience to silent corruption. Which is important to me.
Because files do go corrupt with time, I even noticed it with the disks I used before the FreeNAS server I run now.
BTW I use Spinpoint F1 1TB and they are humming along at or 1 degree above ambient.
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