CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[Spanky Ham]

OK, here is my Cedia report that I have been procrastinating on doing. I am not sure how many care, but I think ecrabb wanted to hear about it.

Let me start by saying that even though this is an industry show I don't think it could have been any easier to get in. I think they were expecting a low turnout. They didn't even charge me the regular price($75) to get in($50).

The first day of the show I didn't end up getting there till later in the day. I had to do some work and then I ended up waiting around for Darin(Darinp2 at AVS) to arrive. By the time we got to the show, we only had about a hour and a half to look around. We stopped in to see the new Samsung 900. Everybody's favorite calibrator was sitting in the front row, Ken whitcomb. We didn't sit through Joe Kane's presentation, but the pj does look to be the SOTA for 1chip dlp. The next demo was Sim2. First look at LED was disappointing. I think the best on/off cr numbers I heard were 2500 to 1. Everyone said the same thing - "Wait till next year." We ended the day at the SMX/Cineramax demo. This was probably the best 1080p image at the show. Peter has done a good job with the Barco, if you can afford it. SMX's new screen was really good. This was the first time I have ever seen an acoustic screen that I could live with. It was that good. Perfs were not visible from more than like two to three feet away. I still think a solid screen is the best, but again if you can afford it then you aren't losing much by going this route. Unfortunately, it is only available as a complete screen, so no fabric only sales (unless you are Cliff:)).

I will just list the different tech from here on in. I don't really care about audio that much, so I didn't listen to any of the demos. The one product I did want to hear was the new Audyssey DSX. I finally found it on Saturday, but the demo set up sucked. I found out later that they had a demo offsite. Anyway, it is a new surround matrix with five channels up front and two height channels. The demo I heard sounded good, but they were using the Dolby bluray music disc. I wanted to hear some movie material. I am not sure how many people are going to want to spend the money on all of the speakers, but it definitely looks like something with potential. I could see myself doing something like Zaph's new speaker for an inexpensive set up.

There were only a couple of screen companies that I checked out. I already talked about SMX. Stewart supposedly had some new screens, but I didn't see them. I did sit through the demo with a perf screen and was disappointed. I could see the perfs at six to seven feet and that was when I gave up looking. The Stewart rep said that you couldn't see them at seating distance. Wait, I forgot about the Starglass I think it is called. That rearpro screen was pretty impressive, but I am sure it has a price to match. The other acoustic screen was Seymour. Chris and his brother are really nice guys, but what do you expect their from Iowa. I am not sure if their screen material is new, but it is definitely nice. It would be a good alternative for those going the DIY or cheaper solution to SMX. I didn't look at any other screen companies, because I don't think there was anything else new. Honestly, I am not sure what else the screen companies could come up with. Supposedly, a gray high power is being considered. I am skeptical of these new high resolution screens as being nothing more than a marketing play to increase sales.

The other stuff that I saw. Panamorph had a nice demo, if your into anamorphic constant height. I did notice that the JVC demo with the Panamorph did affect convergence and sharpness. I spent some time at the Sencore booth. Nothing really new to report except that there some nice guys. I did meet L.A. and Derek from Calman. I don't think Derek will mind me saying, but they just bought the top of the line Minolta to play with. 3D was big and being shown at more than one booth. Digital Projection had probably the best one with a pj. It looked good with still images, but it made me dizzy with motion. Panasonic had the best demo with their large plasma. I thought it looked nice, but still not ready for prime time. Darin actually liked it a lot. Kei Clark was talking with a company about their product called Dune. It looks like an all in one media solution.

The digital pjs that no one here cares about. The cheaper and smaller companies didn't show. Optoma did have a booth, but it was small. The LEDs are still a year away and probably three years befor they get to less than $5k. The LCDs by Epson and Mits looked roughly the same. The Dlps looked good, but are still lacking in on/off. The Sony VW85 looked really good for the two minutes I got to see it. The on/off has supposedly been increased by a large amount. Finally, there was the JVCs. Darin, Stacey Spears and I spent probably two hours at their demos. Most of the time it was with the new 35. I believe the on/off has been measured by Jason Turk to be around 35k to 1 and it showed. We were able to put Stacey's disc up and display some patterns. The JVC did very well in the patterns that were shown. Now, to eat some crow. Crabb can take me across his knee and spank me. The next demo was the JVC 4k. I believe the screen was a 20 foot unity gain screen. They started with bluray and I thought it looked nice, but it has only 10k to 1 on/off. I think the on/off compared to the other JVCs gave the edge to the regular models. Then it happened. They put in some 4k material and I wet myself. Best in show, period. You could see no pixelation even like a foot away. The room didn't allow to be further back than 1 sw or so, but the depth of image was off the charts. I think the photographers out there would love this pj. All I can say is I want my 4k.


A close up pic:



Probably the best pic I took:












my best bluray shot:


The pics aren't that great, but they give an idea. I won't speak for Darin or Stacey.


A few other thoughts on the show. I know this probably pisses off the diehards, but in picture quality CRT wins in two areas - on/off and motion resolution. In on/off cr, I think 99% here would be more than satisfied with the JVC 25 and 35. Not once did I think about the lack of on/off with these pjs. This included some night scenes during the demo. On motion resolution, the digitals have a way to go. Most weren't to bad, but I could see it. I did find it interesting the seeming lack of awareness regarding MR in the industry. One person who works for one of the digital companies actually mentioned that his old CRT rearpro could display the FPD test correctly while their very expensive line of digitals couldn't.

One final thing that I wanted to add is the Spears and Munsil blu ray disc. I spent some time with Stacey and he is a real nice guy. We put his disc in at the JVC demo and I was impressed with it. He has spent some time making this and I believe some of the test images are from his Red camera. Anyway, for those wanting a test disc for their blu ray player this is a nice disc especially for the price. Of course, if you buy the Oppo then it is free.

[Nashou66]

Nice write up !1 the still images do look great but the motion blur you mention is what turns me off. But in a few years maybe they'll pay attention to it and try to resolve it.

Nashou

[MikeEby]

[Spanky Ham]

Nash,
Motion resolution is the one of the big things that has kept me in the crt camp. The JVCs are out of my price range, but they were definitely less noticeable than the one chip dlp and lcds. I think some of them know about it especially the 3 chip dlp guys who are doing more industrial installs.

I might add that crt does two other things that digital doesn't do. One is the ability to sync to multiple resolutions and the other is being able to focus on a curved screen.

Mike,
Chris just posted over at Avs that if everything behind the screen is black then you don't need the black backing material. He is a really nice guy. His screen is definitely nice for the price. Would I chose it over a regular screen? I don't think I would. I think it is to easy to set up the speakers underneath the screen unless you have big speakers.

[ecrabb]

I've always wanted to go AT with the speakers behind the screen. I think the sound is that much better anchored to the screen, it looks kick-ass, and it just re-creates the cinema experience that much better. If you have two rows of seating, you'll also have some absorption for the back row, a problem very much mitigated if the center or center and mains aren't shoe-horned below the screen.

I've always liked the idea, but once I saw and experienced AT screens at Art's and Cliffy's places, I was in love. The room in my current house wouldn't accommodate it, but my next theater will DEFINITELY have large speakers behind an AT screen.

I need to go visit the Seymour AV guy, some time - he's just up the road from me.

Oh, and Spanky - Why would you say digitals can't focus on a curved screen? It depends on the lens, but many can. In fact, because of the much smaller lenses, most digitals have much more depth-of-field than large-aperture CRT lenses (which have practically no DOF at all). What would be the point of products like the Stewart Cinecurve if digitals couldn't focus on a curved screen?

SC

[MikeEby]

Thanks, that's good to know the black fabric isnt needed...Come to think about it Cliffy's SMX didn't have any..My mains are pretty big older...PSB Goldi...I could tuck them very nicely behind the screen...I would end up loosing about 2 feet of garage...But I could live with that...It would be nice to hide the sub back there too...Perhaps just below the screen with some black AT fabric. I'm clueless when it comes to audio, would you only want a forward firing sub behind an AT screen?

Mike

[Spanky Ham]

I knew someone would point that out. Let me say that it is not as easy as a crt with center and edge focus control.

You should definitely go and check out Chris and his brother. I know he will think I was playing him, because I think I told him the SMX wasn't all that. I took another look and demo and the SMX is that good. I am looking at the Seymour screen right now and it looks good from five feet away. If one has no issue with the Wilsonart then this screen will be fine as well.

[garyfritz]

The Seymour material looks good. Wish my HT wasn't already shorter than I'd like -- there's no way I can throw away a foot or two to stick the speakers behind the screen. If I'm not gonna do AT, there's not much point in going with an AT screen material.

I'm fairly surprised at the gain figures they quote, considering how much light gets through the screen. I assume the picture near the bottom of http://www.seymourav.com/screens.asp is a simulation, and the screen isn't really that transparent, but you still lose a significant amount of light through an AT screen. If they really honestly get 1.2 gain out of it, that's fairly impressive. Even SMX only claims 1.16.

[Spanky Ham]

Gary,
I could not tell you about the gain. I have a sample here and it looks to have more gain than the JKP .9 gain screen. Bruce and I have discussed this and one way screens achieve higher gain is with higher gloss. This may have a little gloss to it, but it is hard to tell inside and with the light loss of the weave.

Doesn't anyone care about the JVC 4k?