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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:09 pm Post subject: Help building a giant HD media server |
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OK, I'm pissed. I have been waiting for months since 2008 cedia. Sony showed a prototype BD 400 disc mega changer and said it would be available in the 1st quarter of 2009. Well we're at just about the half way point of 2009 and not even a hint of when it will be available. I have to do something about my collection and situation. My equipment rack is out in the garage so I have to go outside to put in a DVD or BD to watch. If Sony does not come through in a reasonable amount of time, I will build a giant server. Not being PC savy (especially not HTPC savy) I will need some help to pull this off. First off, all I'm interested in is backing up my own collection. I have no interest is copying TV shows or the like. My thought is to build a 4 or so TB rack mount server with matching rack mount NAS units to compliment it as needed. All I want is to store and play back movies in HD. I'm not sure what OS to use for this or what media player and software to catalog the content. I must be able to control it via RS232 or IR so that my Crestron system can handle it.
So, I'm looking for any and all suggestions. Anyone care to take a stab at it. The mega changer's initial expected MSRP is about $2,350.00 for 400 disc storage.
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Chip
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:45 am Post subject: |
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4 TB is between 2 and 4 harddrives.
Any old PC will take that these days.
Storage is not your issue.
You need to figure out how you are going to play the movies.
PS3?
HTPC?
Mediaplayer?
Your choice will dictate how you store the data. MKV files? BD Isos?
If you are going to use a PC, there is a plethora of front ends.
If you want it to just work, get a hardware solution, but check that it WILL WORK. For instance I found a WDTV was not grunty enough to play mkv files with 24bit audio.
I went with XBMC for my TV, on a cheapo PC. But that path is not for everyone.
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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:31 am Post subject: |
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Probably the easiest thing would be to stream to my PS3 that is already in my system. I forgot about that. So a large NAS and a PC with a blu-ray drive would be all that's needed?
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Chip
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:38 am Post subject: |
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Why do you need a NAS too?
Find out if you can set the PS3 to send a magic packet to the PC to wake it up. Put the drives in the PC directly.
You need to find out what formats the PS3 will play. I think a stripped down BD iso made using ClownBD or BDClown..I forget.
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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:45 am Post subject: |
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| Mark_A_W wrote: | Why do you need a NAS too?
Find out if you can set the PS3 to send a magic packet to the PC to wake it up. Put the drives in the PC directly.
You need to find out what formats the PS3 will play. I think a stripped down BD iso made using ClownBD or BDClown..I forget. |
Well I was looking at a commercial rack mount NAS that holds 20 drives. Yes, a little overkill but...
"Magic packet" wheeeeeow, way over my head
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Chip
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tri_joel
Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 646
Location: Northern Virginia
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| Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:41 am Post subject: |
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Sorry to hijack this thread, but I'm interested also. Although I don't need that much storage. I don't know the first thing about it, not even how to stream to my PS3. Where do I go to learn just the basics? Is ther a "for dummies" about how to do this?
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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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Joel,
Streaming to the PS3 is easy... All you need to do turn on Media Sharing your Windows box... Then, the PS3 will see the Windows box as a DLNA UPnP server.
There are a slew of guides all over the internet on all the different ways you can do it (that go beyond MCE or WMP). Google "WindowsMedia sharing PS3 streaming" or something, and you'll get a zillion hits.
The only thing that trips people up is if the Windows box and PS3 are on different parts of their home network (wired/wireless or two different switches).
SC
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phishin_ca
Joined: 17 Mar 2009
Posts: 64
Location: Salisbury, MD
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| Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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1tb drives are dirt cheap now. The need for a NAS is gone. I have 8 western digital 1tb drives in my media center. 4tb of space highly redundant (raid 10), $700. I use windows media center for playback. Three digital cable tuners, and 3 media center extenders. My wife loves it, since the user interface is the same on all tvs and the theater.
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Heywood Jablome
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 1548
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:27 am Post subject: |
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Well, I've got a 16-way SATA server (with 20gb boot disk in laptop format) that I can let you have for cost... Dual P4 Xeon Supermicro board and 3GB RAM, and its' perfect for you garage (its' so damn loud I can't possibly use it in the house.)
Unfortunately, its' too big for your rack depth.
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-- Baron Alexander von Humboldt: 1769-1859
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greg_mitch
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 5320
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 2:25 am Post subject: |
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| phishin_ca wrote: | | 1tb drives are dirt cheap now. The need for a NAS is gone. I have 8 western digital 1tb drives in my media center. 4tb of space highly redundant (raid 10), $700. I use windows media center for playback. Three digital cable tuners, and 3 media center extenders. My wife loves it, since the user interface is the same on all tvs and the theater. |
Newegg has some WD \5400 RPM drives for $70 @ 1TB
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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 3:28 am Post subject: |
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| Heywood Jablome wrote: | Well, I've got a 16-way SATA server (with 20gb boot disk in laptop format) that I can let you have for cost... Dual P4 Xeon Supermicro board and 3GB RAM, and its' perfect for you garage (its' so damn loud I can't possibly use it in the house.)
Unfortunately, its' too big for your rack depth. |
Why is it so loud? Is it running full bore 24/7? Is it going to cost more in electricity to run then my hot tub?
It must be huge if it's deeper then my rack can handle. Noise is not a issue so it does sound interesting.
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Chip
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:46 am Post subject: Re: Help building a giant HD media server |
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| stefuel wrote: | OK, I'm pissed. I have been waiting for months since 2008 cedia. Sony showed a prototype BD 400 disc mega changer and said it would be available in the 1st quarter of 2009. Well we're at just about the half way point of 2009 and not even a hint of when it will be available. I have to do something about my collection and situation. My equipment rack is out in the garage so I have to go outside to put in a DVD or BD to watch. If Sony does not come through in a reasonable amount of time, I will build a giant server. Not being PC savy (especially not HTPC savy) I will need some help to pull this off. First off, all I'm interested in is backing up my own collection. I have no interest is copying TV shows or the like. My thought is to build a 4 or so TB rack mount server with matching rack mount NAS units to compliment it as needed. All I want is to store and play back movies in HD. I'm not sure what OS to use for this or what media player and software to catalog the content. I must be able to control it via RS232 or IR so that my Crestron system can handle it.
So, I'm looking for any and all suggestions. Anyone care to take a stab at it. The mega changer's initial expected MSRP is about $2,350.00 for 400 disc storage. |
There was recent news on the Sony product, for release in Japan, and costing US$2,200. Unjustifiably expensive IMO.
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:51 am Post subject: |
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| stefuel wrote: | | Heywood Jablome wrote: | Well, I've got a 16-way SATA server (with 20gb boot disk in laptop format) that I can let you have for cost... Dual P4 Xeon Supermicro board and 3GB RAM, and its' perfect for you garage (its' so damn loud I can't possibly use it in the house.)
Unfortunately, its' too big for your rack depth. |
Why is it so loud? Is it running full bore 24/7? Is it going to cost more in electricity to run then my hot tub?
It must be huge if it's deeper then my rack can handle. Noise is not a issue so it does sound interesting. |
There is no reason to run a PC 24/7 these days (unless it's connected to a security system I guess...but no one needs one of those anyway).
Sleep works. The HTPC I just built on the cheap comes out of standby in about 5 seconds.
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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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I know there will be a hefty price to pay for the Sony. However, I don't think you could build a HTPC/server that could hold more for less money. How many 1TB drives would you need to hold 400 BD's. I guess there is a few benifits to the server arguement. Quicker loading times and servicablity come to mind but at the expense of HTPC quirkies and the cost to build such a large beastie. I'm torn as to which direction to go and would love to tell Sony to piss off but I'm not sure I'm ready to take on the alternative.
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Chip
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
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Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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You need 12 x 1 terabyte drives (about 30gb per movie).
That's about a grand now. It will be half that in a year. Start with a couple of terabytes and add as you go.
I have about 4 terabytes now.
Do you really have, or plan to have that many movies? I only own a bit over one hundred DVDs, and about 40 BD/HD-DVDs - almost all duplicates. In 10 years there just weren't any more DVD's worth buying...
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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If one prepares for the maximum BD-ROM size without converting them then I would guess ...
400 X 50GB = 20TB.
Last December I bought 1TB drives for $90, and I think they are still that price today. So, $1800. Of course, the Sony solution requires 100% up-front payout. Unless you already have 400 Blu-ray movies then you would have to weigh in on the costs.
But, since you and I and probably no one on this forum has had the opportunity to play with the impending Sony solution and the fact that their last changer products have been dog slow in terms of the UI, this may be something to also weigh in. In fact, I had bought two of their last DVD-ROM (400 disk) changers and sold one of them in its unopened boxes because I was disappointed in the performance.
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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Why would you rip the whole disc?
The process to strip the rubbish is relatively simple.
But, even with the extras, no disc I've seen goes anywhere near 50GB.
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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
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Location: Ottawa, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:52 pm Post subject: Re: Help building a giant HD media server |
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| stefuel wrote: | I have to do something about my collection and situation. My equipment rack is out in the garage so I have to go outside to put in a DVD or BD to watch. If Sony does not come through in a reasonable amount of time, I will build a giant server. Not being PC savy (especially not HTPC savy) I will need some help to pull this off.
So, I'm looking for any and all suggestions. Anyone care to take a stab at it. The mega changer's initial expected MSRP is about $2,350.00 for 400 disc storage. |
I don't get it. I'm not frugal by any stretch of the imagination, but you're considering spending $2000+ just to save about 60 seconds when you want to watch a movie? Movies run about 2 hours on average? What's the big deal about having to walk for 60 seconds to put a movie in? Assuming you watch each of the 400 movies twice in the next few years, that's 800 minutes of time of walking. You'll spend considerably more time building and ripping your discs to the HTPC drives.
The fact of the matter is, most people do not watch a movie more than once or twice at most so why rip it to a hard drive in the first place? It'll take LONGER to rip it than to just walk up and take it off the shelf and put it in the player. The idea of ripping to the HD to save time is completely nonsense. Nobody switches movies every 5 minutes. You put the movie in and watch for 2 hours. Ok yes, sometimes you'll demo stuff for people and switch around a lot but for the amount of time that happens I just don't get it. I someone tends to demo stuff more than actually watching I don't understand why they'd have an HT in the first place. 
The only people I know that rip to hard drives are people who rent movies so they rip because they basically just want to steal the movies. But if you own them all as you say, the best way to save time (and money to boot) is to simply put a movie in when you want to watch it. Odds are most movies will only get watched once. I have 1000's myself and that's the fact. Ripping a 300-400 Blu-ray movie collection would take you days and days!
Another option: If you want to save that 60 seconds of walking why not put a $200 Blu-ray player in the room where the projector is?
More questions:
Why is the equipment in your garage? Is it a temp/humidity controlled garage (I hope!).
Where do you store the 400 movies today? Is that an issue?
Kal
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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"Ripping a 300-400 Blu-ray movie collection would take you days and days!"
Weeks and weeks actually.
Kal, why do you buy a movie if you only watch it once? That's what renting is for.
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Heywood Jablome
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 1548
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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To answer Chips' question about the noise and size of that SATA server I've got... Its' an honest to dog server chassis, 3U high (IIRC) with LOTS of front-to-back cooling fans, all very small diameter therefor very high speed. Powered up in my office it was nearly deafening.
It's also sized to fit a deep server rack, not the shallow industrial rack you have.
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"Those countries which lag behind in industry, in the application of mechanics and technical chemistry, in the careful selection and utilization of natural products, where the respect for such activities does not permeate all classes of society, will unfailingly decline in prosperity. They will sink faster when neighbor states, with an energetic exchange between science and industry, go forward with renewed vitality."
-- Baron Alexander von Humboldt: 1769-1859
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