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WanMan · Joined: 19 Mar 2006 Posts: 10270

I have little if no opinion of Michael Moore. He is what he is and no better or worse than anyone else out there in the media. But, last night I watched Bowling for Columbine for the first time. I had recorded it and decided to give it a whirl. Humorous at times, amazing at other times, the movie does make you want to wonder about Americans.

With that said, Americans are no better worse than most of the world, but I am sure opinions galore can be offered in retrospect to my conclusion. I do have to mention, though, about Canadians not locking their doors. Amazing. On one hand I'd think it would be a vast shopping mall for criminals, but on the other hand the seven million firearms and ten million homes has to make you wonder.

Heck, even victims of home intruders were still not locking their doors. I did find the comment about a locked door by a homeowner is a prison to them and not the burglar. Never thought of it that way, but I do wonder how many interpret that conclusion the same.

I did think the harassment of Charlton Heston a bit much--picking on an old man? But, I also found the NRA in very bad taste in showing up in both towns within a day of the incidents. While I support the 2nd Amendment and the NRA, too much is simply too much. I'm surprised the NRA didn't show up at the cemetery for a surprise convention.

So, what makes Americans so different? Mr. Green

BTW, I do lock my doors, I do own firearms, and I have friends just like me. I don't hunt, but I do target shooting on ranges. Its one thing for me to consider leaving my door unlocked, and yet another to be expected to vacate my home for the intruder's safety (ahem, legal benefit).

Last thought was the interesting social side of black Americans from Detroit crossing over into Windsor because it is more relaxing and less pointed in racial context. I cannot say that I blame them.

WanMan · Joined: 19 Mar 2006 Posts: 10270

Added thought that MUST be commented on.

I do believe there is a problem in the United States with the media always highlighting the bad and never the good. They'd rather show, and sensationalize, crime over everything else. They would ignore Bush bombing innocent folks abroad and keep that from the news in order to show something local.

Also, I was amazed to see Titan II rockets were still be manufactured, but maybe I am wrong and these were from the now-decommissioned Titan III rockets.

emdawgz1 · Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 7949

garyfritz · Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 12088 Location: Fort Collins, CO

Yup, all broadcast """journalism""" is primarily sensationalism. They pounce on any dramatic or sensational event and hype it to the max. They're just doing whatever it takes to suck in gullible viewers and sell ad time. Don Henley got it right.

This is especially true for all the political hacks, on both sides. They're all focused on showing how evil the other side is, instead of working on promoting solutions. It just increases the polarization and demonization that continues tearing us all apart. They're all a bunch of damn leeches and weasels. Grrrr.

JustGreg · Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Posts: 3098 Location: Kenosha, WI

Yup. If it bleeds it leads. I've never seen anything by Michael Moore. I liked what I read about him when he first came on the scene but he's sold out too since then. It's all about unit sales and publicity backed by debatable 'facts'. I don't know why but I associate him as a rounder bearded Weird Al...ALMOST the real deal.

garyfritz · Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 12088 Location: Fort Collins, CO

Yeah, it's unfortunate that he actually has some very good information to impart, but he obscures it with so much shady journalism and goofy strawman arguments that he ruins his credibility. Too many people ignore the message because they don't like the message, and so they dismiss it because of the messenger. I wish we had someone who'd do what he does, but as a professional instead of as a buffoon.

ecrabb · Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:23 pm Post subject:

Oh Gary. Please. Michael Moore is a scum bag. He has very little good information to impart. It's not information he presents - it's propaganda. He's a textbook propagandist, in fact. He starts making his films with a very clear agenda in mind - his own agenda - then writes the story to fit his - and only his - version of reality. Saying he obscures good information with his style is like saying the Italian mafia obscures the great work they do with their style.

Moore is a dishonest, lazy, slovenly propagandist. His true talent is spinning a yarn that fits a single viewpoint, a tale that looks somewhat credible on the surface, while he omits, obfuscates, or outright contradicts any information that doesn't support the propaganda piece. Wait. Creating propaganda isn't his true talent. Rather, his truly remarkable talent is being able to sell said bull**** and have millions of people pay their hard-earned money to lap it up. On the other hand, perhaps that isn't his talent, but instead the ignorance of the millions willing to listen to someone like him. I guess old "there's a sucker born every minute" adage holds truer than ever in this case.

I don't ignore his message because I don't like it - I challenge his message because 90% of it is pure unadulterated bull****, and I'm smart enough to know when somebody has absolutely ZERO credibility as a source of anything - especially "information".

SC

ecrabb · Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:36 pm Post subject:

Sorry, I can't let this go. Michael Moore makes my blood boil.

emdawgz1 · Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 7949

SC, you have got to stop holding back.... We're all friends here... How do you REALLY feel???

Thumbs Up

ecrabb · Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:41 pm Post subject:

SC

garyfritz · Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 12088 Location: Fort Collins, CO

Beat me to it, John. Laughing

JustGreg · Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Posts: 3098 Location: Kenosha, WI

Yeah it isn't healthy at all. Repressing ones feelings has been linked to opinionated outbursts resulting in full disclosures...or is that ulcers. Laughing

For disliking the guy you sure do know a lot about him. Mr. Green

I do like the word buffoon tho. It's one of my all time favorites. Slovenly fits him well also. You'd think that with all his Blair Witch Project-esque earnings he could afford to have clothes custom made. He's definately a man who needs suspenders on 4 points of the radius. Twisted Evil

Story teller, fabricator, liar, or buffoon...he's sure rolling in dough.

garyfritz · Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 12088 Location: Fort Collins, CO

I really dislike the guy. I agree 100% with SC that he's a slovenly, cheesy, shameless propagandist.

Which is a lot of why he pisses me off. I think there were many valid points in Fahrenheit 9/11 (which is, to be honest, the only of his films I've ever seen). But because Moore turned the whole thing into a circus and an ego trip, he trivialized the messages and almost single-handedly made them non-issues because nobody wanted to be seen agreeing with him. As SC said, he is a source with almost zero credibility except among his fans.

(Yes, I do think there were some serious and non-bull**** points in that movie that should have been seriously investigated: the cozy relationship between the Bushes and the Saudis, the utter ignoring of the fact that nearly all the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi and al-Qaida got most of its funding from the Saudis but Bush was hell-bent on invading Iraq, the special privileges the bin Laden Saudi relatives got in escaping the US after 9/11, yadda yadda. There were more but it's been years since I've seen it so that's all that comes to mind. But Moore presented it with cheap shots, slanted facts, and farcical propaganda. The material deserved better.)

ecrabb · Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:10 pm Post subject:

You're right - there are some issues raised in Farenheit which give one pause... However, I think most of it can actually be explained pretty reasonably - and has been, just not all in one place. Then there's several issues that are difficult or impossible to prove. For instance, the issue of funding of Al-Qaeda is a perfect issue for a Michael Moore film, because it hasn't (and probably won't ever be) proven one way or the other, exactly where he got his funding to carry out the attacks of 9/11.

Have you guys seen Fahrenhype 9/11? If you haven't, you have to see it. I watched it within a few weeks of seeing Farenheit, and it was absolutely riveting to see much of Farenheit disassembled and shown for what it was. Dick Morris is excellent, and they actually show some of Michael Moore's edited sequences and contrast them with the same source material in context; You're able to see how the words took on a completely different meaning in Moore's fabricated context.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0427228/

If you guys are interested and can't find it anywhere, I'll rip the damn thing and post it so you guys can see it. Very well produced, informative, and very interesting.

SC

MikeEby · Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 5237 Location: Osceola, Indiana

I cringe when Michael Moore or Jessie Jackson Sr. get evolved in topic I feel strongly about. They are such divisive figures they somehow manage to do more harm than good in advancing the cause. I find Moore’s films entertaining but it ends there.

I am looking forward to Bill Maher’s new documentary out this fall called “Religulous”

BTW the HD Quicktime Trailers look sweet Smile

http://www.apple.com/trailers/lions_gate/religulous/hd/

Mike

Zebu Fellenz · Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 2567

emdawgz1 · Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 7949

YAWN!!!

I get it... he's so smart 'cause he dont believe in god.... you're so stupid 'cause you do..... I get it.

He's a rich guy and now he's gonna show us how stupid belief in god is....

Whatever, he's got all the answers.

Spare me Bill Thumbs Down

Zebu Fellenz · Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 2567

John,

Do you believe in a God?

MikeEby · Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 5237 Location: Osceola, Indiana

**kal** · Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:04 am Post subject:

I don't have a problem with the overall message that Moore tries to put forward in his movies (ie: guns are bad, US health care sucks, etc).

What I have a problem with is the slanted and dishonest way that he goes about it.

The "nobody locks their doors in Canada" thing is a good example: Film knocking on 100 doors and only use the 2% of content where the people don't have their doors locked. C'mon. Give me a break.

His movies are consistently full of 'cherry picked' content which has led many to ask if he's really a documentary film maker at all as he doesn't present both sides of any story.

Kal