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CRT_Ben
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1684
Location: Northern Virginia
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| CRT_Ben wrote: | | Phil Smith wrote: | | I think this has more to do with how comfortable you are carrying money on your person. Some people don't like it. I feel naked if I don't have at least $500 in my pocket. |
If you get mugged, or even just drop your wallet, that cash is gone, baby, gone. Credit card lost or stolen, and you get it all back. |
| Phil Smith wrote: |
Hasn't happened so far, and I've carried cash all my life. The amount has grown since I started buying and selling for a living 20 years ago, but I've always carried cash. Again it's about how comfortable you are with cash in your pocket. You're obviously a person that's not. I am. |
I suppose I can't deny that it's a "comfort level", but why would you ever take risks (such as carrying at least $500 cash at all times) that you didn't have to take? To me, it's like walking a tightrope on a windy day rather than taking the bridge because you're "more comfortable" with the tightrope. To each his own, I suppose.
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CRT_Ben
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1684
Location: Northern Virginia
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Phil Smith wrote: |
| Quote: | | Read the PayPal agreement. You agree to this when you use PayPal, you accept their terms of service, which include that you waive your rights to credit card consumer protection laws if you want to use their service, and that you may not issue a chargeback for unauthorized use of your credit card and PayPal account, or if you do, then they have the right to limit your account. |
Well that may be the way the agreement is written, but I can tell you from first hand experience that credit card companies can indeed do charge backs on credit card funded PayPal payments. In fact, PayPal has an option for sellers to block payments that are funded by credit cards to avoid that very thing. I don't use it, because it would hurt my sales, but I could block them if I wanted to. If credit card companies can't do charge backs, why would the option to block CC payments exist? There wouldn't be need for it.
I'm confused as to why Dave, but when it comes to PayPal and ebay, you're a plethora of misinformation.  |
What he's saying here is that you CAN do a chargeback, and in the event that you do, Paypal has the right to "limit" (axe) your account...so as a buyer, if you did a chargeback, PayPal would most likely pull your account.
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Phil Smith wrote: | | Person99 wrote: | | If the person closes their bank account, PayPal will leave you holding the bag for $25. |
Where do you get this stuff from? |
Experience. Bought an item from a PayPal verified high feedback seller. The cheated 11 people at the same time out of about $500 each. PayPal gave me all but $25 back.
| Phil Smith wrote: | | I'm confused as to why Dave, but when it comes to PayPal and ebay, you're a plethora of misinformation. |
read the ToS.
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Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Phil Smith wrote: | | You guys are a paranoid bunch. Why is that? Have you been burned a lot? Maybe what you need is to be more careful with your money, not protection. |
Nope. Never been burned. I just prefer the ease of use of a credit card. I don't have to go to the bank constantly to take out money, and I can buy things online. (You can't shop online at most stores if you don't have a credit card, though more and more places are accepting Google Checkout and Paypal).
But most of all I like the extra $500-700 it gives me in cash back!
Kal
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Phil Smith
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 7717
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| CRT_Ben wrote: | | I suppose I can't deny that it's a "comfort level", but why would you ever take risks (such as carrying at least $500 cash at all times) that you didn't have to take? To me, it's like walking a tightrope on a windy day rather than taking the bridge because you're "more comfortable" with the tightrope. To each his own, I suppose. |
How many times have you been mugged?
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Phil Smith
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 7717
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| CRT_Ben wrote: | | What he's saying here is that you CAN do a chargeback, and in the event that you do, Paypal has the right to "limit" (axe) your account...so as a buyer, if you did a chargeback, PayPal would most likely pull your account. |
Well, you're still protected by your credit card company - at least once. If PayPal limits your account because of a charge back, so what? It's better than getting ripped off.
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Phil Smith wrote: | | CRT_Ben wrote: | | I suppose I can't deny that it's a "comfort level", but why would you ever take risks (such as carrying at least $500 cash at all times) that you didn't have to take? To me, it's like walking a tightrope on a windy day rather than taking the bridge because you're "more comfortable" with the tightrope. To each his own, I suppose. |
How many times have you been mugged? |
That's a bit illogical. Never been mugged myself but I bet that's not the reason why most people carry credit cards. I've also never been in a serious accident where a seatbelt would have saved my life. Does that mean I shouldn't worry about it and not wear a seatbelt?
Kal
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Phil Smith wrote: | | CRT_Ben wrote: | | I suppose I can't deny that it's a "comfort level", but why would you ever take risks (such as carrying at least $500 cash at all times) that you didn't have to take? To me, it's like walking a tightrope on a windy day rather than taking the bridge because you're "more comfortable" with the tightrope. To each his own, I suppose. |
How many times have you been mugged? |
A guy tried to mug me once....I hit him with an analog Motorola Brick phone. Knocked him sensless. Then I used the phone to call the police. lol Ahhhhhh analog 
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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You're missing the point, Phil! What are the chances your house will start on fire? Tiny, right? Yet, we all still have smoke detectors, fire extinguishers, and - most importantly - insurance! How often do you ever NEED more than a couple hundred in cash? The chances of you losing your wad, having it stolen, or getting mugged are probably higher than your house burning down! Yet, you walk around with over $500! Think of the credit card as insurance on your purchases. Even better, it's free insurance.
Also, I know several people that have had unexplained charges show up on their credit cards. Whether fraud or bank error, you're out the money while the bank sorts it out if you're using a debit/check card. Not so with a credit card. My Dad had a $5500 charge show up on a credit card in January or February. It was a credit card, so he called the CC Co immediately, they cancelled the card and issued another and he went on with business as usual like nothing ever happened. If that had happened to a debit/check card, he would have been OUT that money while the bank corrected the issue - for a week or more. Not cool if you happen to have a mortgage payment hit your account while the bank is sorting it out, either!
SC
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Phil Smith
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 7717
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Person99 wrote: | | Experience. Bought an item from a PayPal verified high feedback seller. The cheated 11 people at the same time out of about $500 each. PayPal gave me all but $25 back. |
I misunderstood you. I thought you were saying PayPal would only give you $25 dollars back.
I think if I was faced with a potential $500 loss, I would be extremely relieved that PayPal reimbursed me all but $25 of it out of their own pocket. Instead of mentioning the $475 you recouped, you emphasized on the $25 you didn't. Dave missed his political calling. 
| Person99 wrote: | | Phil Smith wrote: | | I'm confused as to why Dave, but when it comes to PayPal and ebay, you're a plethora of misinformation. |
read the ToS. |
Terms of ??? I'm not sure what that stands for.
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Phil Smith
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 7717
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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Lets see, Kal's never been burned nor mugged, but adamantly recommends one to be cautious about these potential hazards.
Analog has been attacked unsuccessfully once.
So for one failed incident in two guy's entire lives, I'm suppose to take precautions. I just don't see the point...
The point I wanted to make on mugging is: The muggers have no idea who does or doesn't have money on them. You guys are JUST as like to get mugged as I am. Carrying credit card instead of money improves my chances of not getting mugged ZERO!
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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What are you smoking, Phil? We're not talking about reducing the chances of getting mugged, we're talking about reducing the chances of losing a significant amount of money in the event you ARE mugged (or are pick-pocketed or lose your wallet)! To put it back in house terms, you're asking why we're bothering with homeowner's insurance or smoke detectors when it won't decrease your chances of having a fire! Duh! That's not the point!
If I get mugged, I'll lose $20 or 30 - or at most $50 - because that's all I ever carry. If you get mugged, you'll lose $500, 600 - or whatever you carry.
SC
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Phil Smith
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 7717
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | | You're missing the point, Phil! What are the chances your house will start on fire? Tiny, right? Yet, we all still have smoke detectors, fire extinguishers, and - most importantly - insurance! How often do you ever NEED more than a couple hundred in cash? The chances of you losing your wad, having it stolen, or getting mugged are probably higher than your house burning down! Yet, you walk around with over $500! Think of the credit card as insurance on your purchases. Even better, it's free insurance. |
Well I really don't to want to talk about it, but to be honest, I usually carry more than $500 (don't you guys get any ideas!  ) I've never lost a penny! How many times do I have to say that!
I have never experience a house fire. I don't know anyone that's experienced one. So, in a way, I'm not really sure fire insurance is all that necessary. It's taking precautions for a very, very unlikely event.
| Quote: | | Also, I know several people that have had unexplained charges show up on their credit cards. Whether fraud or bank error, you're out the money while the bank sorts it out if you're using a debit/check card. Not so with a credit card. My Dad had a $5500 charge show up on a credit card in January or February. It was a credit card, so he called the CC Co immediately, they cancelled the card and issued another and he went on with business as usual like nothing ever happened. If that had happened to a debit/check card, he would have been OUT that money while the bank corrected the issue - for a week or more. Not cool if you happen to have a mortgage payment hit your account while the bank is sorting it out, either! |
Well just to be argumentative, credit cards need all that protection. Because credit card info is freely and often given, there's a lot more opportunity for fraud. . Consequently there IS more fraud.
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Phil Smith
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 7717
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | | What are you smoking, Phil? We're not talking about reducing the chances of getting mugged, we're talking about reducing the chances of losing a significant amount of money in the event you ARE mugged (or are pick-pocketed or lose your wallet)! |
SC, I forgot to include myself in that equation. I've never been mugged either. So one unsuccessful mugging in THREE people's entire LIVES! I don't care what the potential risk are SC. I like my odds. 
I can't debate 3 of you at once. You're wearing me out!
I understand your points, but I think in some ways you guys are making these issues more serious than they really are.
Over and out!
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | You're missing the point, Phil! What are the chances your house will start on fire? Tiny, right? Yet, we all still have smoke detectors, fire extinguishers, and - most importantly - insurance! How often do you ever NEED more than a couple hundred in cash? The chances of you losing your wad, having it stolen, or getting mugged are probably higher than your house burning down! Yet, you walk around with over $500! Think of the credit card as insurance on your purchases. Even better, it's free insurance.
Also, I know several people that have had unexplained charges show up on their credit cards. Whether fraud or bank error, you're out the money while the bank sorts it out if you're using a debit/check card. Not so with a credit card. My Dad had a $5500 charge show up on a credit card in January or February. It was a credit card, so he called the CC Co immediately, they cancelled the card and issued another and he went on with business as usual like nothing ever happened. If that had happened to a debit/check card, he would have been OUT that money while the bank corrected the issue - for a week or more. Not cool if you happen to have a mortgage payment hit your account while the bank is sorting it out, either!
SC |
No credit cards = no credit card fraud. No?
If I loose my wallet ( hasn't happened yet ) I'm out a couple hundred maybe. So what? It's only money I'll make more.
( and yes I really do think like that )
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Phil Smith wrote: | | ecrabb wrote: | | What are you smoking, Phil? We're not talking about reducing the chances of getting mugged, we're talking about reducing the chances of losing a significant amount of money in the event you ARE mugged (or are pick-pocketed or lose your wallet)! |
SC, I forgot to include myself in that equation. I've never been mugged either. So one unsuccessful mugging in THREE people's entire LIVES! I don't care what the potential risk are SC. I like my odds.
I can't debate 3 of you at once. You're wearing me out!
I understand your points, but I think in some ways you guys are making these issues more serious than they really are.
Over and out! |
But you're from Texas. You're supposed to love arguing. 
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Phil Smith
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 7717
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:21 am Post subject: |
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Well I do like to argue. What pisses some people off is just having fun to me. But I wasn't aware that was because I'm a Texan. Now I know!
Most people on this forum are smart. It's hard enough to argue with ONE of them. Three was truly giving me a headache. 
Where were you when I needed you Analog? You and I are the only cash proponents around here.
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CRT_Ben
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1684
Location: Northern Virginia
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:01 am Post subject: |
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Agreed, though most of the time I view these as debates rather than arguments, unless they get really ugly. But a lot of people seem to take things very personally when someone else takes a different stance - in this case, I'm certainly not concerned or angry that Phil or Analog like to carry cash, just expounding on the benefits of responsible credit card use. That said, we're all adults here - once the facts are presented, we'll make the best decision based on our personal priorities. Now, where's the group hug smiley?
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:30 am Post subject: |
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Group hug
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AnalogRocks
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Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:33 am Post subject: |
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Or for Phil and I:
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