|
As this forum is rarely used anymore, we've locked it. Feel free to browse and read. Questions? Please reach out to us directly. Cheers! |
|
 |
|
|
| Author |
Message |
kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
| kal wrote: | | AnalogRocks wrote: | | I don't own one of those new fangled plastic digital things. |
Seriously? You don't have a credit card? How do you (or do you) buy things online?
Kal |
I seriously don't own a credit card. Everything I've bought here I've paind MO for. I'm a cash kinda guy.
I watched my friends go wayyyyy into debit in their 20's on credit cards. I figured if I didn't have the cash for it I would either save the money up or just not bother. It stops making impulsive buy's too.
_________________
Tech support for nothing
CRT.
HD done right!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
Good for you. If if you're not sure if you can curb your spending if you had a credit card, you probably shouldn't have one! Wise choice.
I'm the type of guy who never buys something unless I have the cash either - I'd just be too nervous - but I do use a credit card for absolutely everything and have never in my life carried a balance from one month to the next. My credit card company hates me I think. Other than the merchant fees, they make no money off of me.  (In fact, they pay me...! It's a dividend card so that at the end of the year they pay me a few hundred dollars).
Kal
_________________
Support our site by using our affiliate links. We thank you!
My basement/HT/bar/brewery build 2.0
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
| kal wrote: | Good for you. If if you're not sure if you can curb your spending if you had a credit card, you probably shouldn't have one! Wise choice.
I'm the type of guy who never buys something unless I have the cash either - I'd just be too nervous - but I do use a credit card for absolutely everything and have never in my life carried a balance from one month to the next. My credit card company hates me I think. Other than the merchant fees, they make no money off of me. (In fact, they pay me...! It's a dividend card so that at the end of the year they pay me a few hundred dollars).
Kal |
If I had one I'd likely run it just the way you do. I like the dividend touch too. 
Since my teen's I was a compulsive pack rat. I'd see some new old fangled do dad and I'd just have to have it. (especially electronic's ) Now I missed out on plenty of them but I got plenty too. SO many infact that I actually DID take 300 hours back in 2005 and threwout/cleaned out my apaprtment. Lot's of stuff given away, sold, lost, found and tossed. I put some in storage then 6 months later I went through all the stuff in storage and threw out a 1/4 of that stuff. I'm almost at a liveable level in here.  I found stuff I'd forgotten even 
I use to collect Polaroid camera's and I've shot thousands of sheet's of film, instant and pull apart. I love the analog workflow. I kept all that stuff but instead on 5 model 440 camera's I now have 1, instead of 3 dozen iZone camera's I now have 2. ( missed one on the clean up ). I always liked to have a back up to my back up's back up. But after 20 years of doing that I had no room for anything not even me, and I found that 5 backup's just wasn't necessary.
Now I have a bunch of CRT related stuff. It's fun, but I'm on year 3 and I've started to give some away already. I had 4 projector's now I have 3. I like it better that way.
Now if I can only get my car collection to shrink as fast as my other junk I'll be ok.
_________________
Tech support for nothing
CRT.
HD done right!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Zebu Fellenz
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 2567
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 12:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | It stops making impulsive buy's too. |
Liar 
I don't have a credit card either but I make impulse buys all the time, in fact I would have a hard time coming up with anything substantial I own than wasn't an impulse buy
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| AnalogRocks wrote: | | kal wrote: | | AnalogRocks wrote: | | I don't own one of those new fangled plastic digital things. |
Seriously? You don't have a credit card? How do you (or do you) buy things online?
Kal |
I seriously don't own a credit card. Everything I've bought here I've paind MO for. I'm a cash kinda guy.
I watched my friends go wayyyyy into debit in their 20's on credit cards. I figured if I didn't have the cash for it I would either save the money up or just not bother. It stops making impulsive buy's too. |
It is all about discipline just like with everything else. The cards in and of themselves are not bad. The problem is people are stupid.
_________________
Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Phil Smith
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 7717
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I don't have any credit cards either. What I do for a living requires having cash on me at all times, so I have no need for a credit card. I use a check debit card for on line or over the phone purchases.
I'm with Analog. I really don't see any benefit to having one - or 20.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dculberson
Joined: 05 Jan 2007
Posts: 211
Location: Columbus, OH
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I learned the hard way how painful interest and monthly payments are (I bought a $14k car when my income was about $15k/year).. that fortunately was when I was young and I wised up quickly, sold the car, bought a cheap one for cash, and haven't looked back since. I have credit cards - a lot of them actually - but don't carry a balance. The only times I did was (1) when I bought the vacant land next to my house, and (2) when I built my huge garage. Both times I used those special no-fee balance-transfer offer checks the credit card companies send out, and used them in exactly the way they hope people don't. I got $13k and $20k, respectively, for 2.9% interest, paid off before the interest hiked. Both times I paid less in interest, total, than I would have paid just in closing costs on a home equity loan. The interest itself was also much lower. (You still can't get a 2.9% home equity loan!!)
Credit cards can be great tools, but like many powerful tools, they're very dangerous.
I wouldn't say people are stupid, really, just undereducated financially and a little overly impulsive. The average person recognizes that credit card debt is bad, but not how bad and expensive it is.
_________________
I'm a stuffaholic.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Phil Smith wrote: | I don't have any credit cards either. What I do for a living requires having cash on me at all times, so I have no need for a credit card. I use a check debit card for on line or over the phone purchases.
I'm with Analog. I really don't see any benefit to having one - or 20. |
Hmmm. I get a portion of my purchases back every year on my American Express card even though I carry no balance (so I actually got everything I bought on it cheaper). American express doubles the manufacturers warranty on electronics I buy on it (and they really stand behind this). They make buying online much safer and more secure (much better protection than you have with PayPal). Every single online store takes my AMEX. Not all of them take PayPal or other methods (and I can buy things cheaper online than locally with cash).
And you see no benefit?!?!?!?!? There is only upside. I really don't get this line of reasoning.
_________________
Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Person99 wrote: | | And you see no benefit?!?!?!?!? There is only upside. I really don't get this line of reasoning. |
Not to mention you get the use of somebody else's money for 3-4 weeks - for free!!!
I agree - there is no downside if you use them responsibly - only benefits. There is a very big downside if you use them irresponsibly.
Plus, if you're using them for business, it's great for expense tracking. All business expenses on one card, personal stuff on another. Makes doing taxes MUCH easier.
SC
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Phil Smith
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 7717
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well I don't use credit cards, so I don't know what getting a portion of your purchases back every year is about. What percent do you get back? I've never had an electronic device go bad that wasn't several years old, so the warranty stuff is a non-issue to me. I've never had a security issue using PayPal or my Visa check debit card, and I've used them both a lot, so that's a non-issue to me as well. Plus, I'm not sure you're right that I'm not well protected with them. Haven't a problem to find out.
I think this has more to do with how comfortable you are carrying money on your person. Some people don't like it. I feel naked if I don't have at least $500 in my pocket.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRT_Ben
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1684
Location: Northern Virginia
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Phil Smith wrote: | | Well I don't use credit cards, so I don't know what getting a portion of your purchases back every year is about. What percent do you get back? |
Usually 1-1.5%, sometimes varies based on how much you put on the card per year (usually the rate goes up based on spending). Not a fortune, but a free few hundred bucks per year is nothing to sneeze at.
| Phil Smith wrote: | | I've never had an electronic device go bad that wasn't several years old, so the warranty stuff is a non-issue to me. |
You seem to be lucky here. Even if you buy only quality electronics, things can and do break. Again, there's absolutely no downside here to a free extended warranty that actually pays out if your stuff breaks.
| Phil Smith wrote: | | I've never had a security issue using PayPal or my Visa check debit card, and I've used them both a lot, so that's a non-issue to me as well. Plus, I'm not sure you're right that I'm not well protected with them. Haven't a problem to find out. |
I doubt you'll have problems with your Visa, but PayPal? Again, seems lucky given your eBay volume. I'd rather know that I can get my money back with a simple phone call, even if it causes PayPal to pull my account.
| Phil Smith wrote: | | I think this has more to do with how comfortable you are carrying money on your person. Some people don't like it. I feel naked if I don't have at least $500 in my pocket. |
If you get mugged, or even just drop your wallet, that cash is gone, baby, gone. Credit card lost or stolen, and you get it all back.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Phil Smith
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 7717
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| CRT_Ben wrote: | | Phil Smith wrote: | | Well I don't use credit cards, so I don't know what getting a portion of your purchases back every year is about. What percent do you get back? |
Usually 1-1.5%, sometimes varies based on how much you put on the card per year (usually the rate goes up based on spending). Not a fortune, but a free few hundred bucks per year is nothing to sneeze at. |
I concede this point, although the time it takes to keep up with your credit cards may be worth more than a couple of hundred bucks.
| CRT_Ben wrote: | | Phil Smith wrote: | | I've never had an electronic device go bad that wasn't several years old, so the warranty stuff is a non-issue to me. |
You seem to be lucky here. Even if you buy only quality electronics, things can and do break. Again, there's absolutely no downside here to a free extended warranty that actually pays out if your stuff breaks. |
I'm almost 53 and have owned tons of electronics, so I guess I am lucky.
| CRT_Ben wrote: | | Phil Smith wrote: | | I've never had a security issue using PayPal or my Visa check debit card, and I've used them both a lot, so that's a non-issue to me as well. Plus, I'm not sure you're right that I'm not well protected with them. Haven't a problem to find out. |
I doubt you'll have problems with your Visa, but PayPal? Again, seems lucky given your eBay volume. I'd rather know that I can get my money back with a simple phone call, even if it causes PayPal to pull my account. |
I don't think I'm lucky at all. People that have PayPal problems make transactions I would never make. A little common sense goes a long way with PayPal.
| CRT_Ben wrote: | | Phil Smith wrote: | | I think this has more to do with how comfortable you are carrying money on your person. Some people don't like it. I feel naked if I don't have at least $500 in my pocket. |
If you get mugged, or even just drop your wallet, that cash is gone, baby, gone. Credit card lost or stolen, and you get it all back. |
Hasn't happened so far, and I've carried cash all my life. The amount has grown since I started buying and selling for a living 20 years ago, but I've always carried cash. Again it's about how comfortable you are with cash in your pocket. You're obviously a person that's not. I am.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Phil,
PayPal only protects you if you make an eBay purchase. Buy something on Videogon, AVS, or here--and you're f*ck***!
Also, PayPal will NEVER recover the full amount as your credit card will.
Third, you give up all the legal rights you have with credit cards when you use PayPal.
I use it (it is a necessary evil), but yes, I'm VERY careful with it.
_________________
Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 7:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Phil Smith wrote: | | Well I don't use credit cards, so I don't know what getting a portion of your purchases back every year is about. What percent do you get back? |
Mine's a Visa dividend platinum card from CIBC: http://www.cibc.com/ca/visa/dividend-platinum-card.html
Up to 2% back depending on how much you spend. Wife and I put everything on it (and I mean everything) as we always pay it off monthly so we typically get $600-700 back a year. Comes off the December bill. The card does cost me $75 year but gives me a larger percentage back than the free card so in the end I make more money.
Credit cards all give great buyer protection against fraud and other things. Cash and bank transfers give you nothing.
Kal
_________________
Support our site by using our affiliate links. We thank you!
My basement/HT/bar/brewery build 2.0
Last edited by kal on Fri Mar 21, 2008 7:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 7:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Phil Smith wrote: | | CRT_Ben wrote: | | Phil Smith wrote: | | Well I don't use credit cards, so I don't know what getting a portion of your purchases back every year is about. What percent do you get back? |
Usually 1-1.5%, sometimes varies based on how much you put on the card per year (usually the rate goes up based on spending). Not a fortune, but a free few hundred bucks per year is nothing to sneeze at. |
I concede this point, although the time it takes to keep up with your credit cards may be worth more than a couple of hundred bucks. |
What do you mean "keep up" with a credit card? I only have 1 card, the bill comes every month, and I pay it using online banking in about 10 seconds. In fact I pay all my bills online. Those that I can are automatically put on my credit card (so that I get the 2%) too. I only mail about 1 letter a year! (Not counting Xmas cards, but the wife looks after that...)
Kal
_________________
Support our site by using our affiliate links. We thank you!
My basement/HT/bar/brewery build 2.0
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Phil Smith
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 7717
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 7:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Person99 wrote: | Phil,
PayPal only protects you if you make an eBay purchase. Buy something on Videogon, AVS, or here--and you're f*ck***! |
How are you going to pay an individual with a credit card?
| Quote: | | Also, PayPal will NEVER recover the full amount as your credit card will. |
What makes you think that Dave? That's simply not true. As a buyer, I've recovered ALL of my money several times.
| Quote: | Third, you give up all the legal rights you have with credit cards when you use PayPal.
I use it (it is a necessary evil), but yes, I'm VERY careful with it. |
Again, what makes you think that? My first PayPal dispute with a customer was over clarinet mouthpiece. The customer didn't like the mouthpiece he received, and demanded I reimburse him $35 for a new one. Well it was cheap clarinet that sold for $100, so I wasn't about to do that! I called PayPal. They told me his payment was funded off of a credit card, and they advised me to allow the buyer to return the clarinet. They said if he contested the payment with his credit card company, they would reverse the charges without even asking if he had returned it or not. If I agreed to let him return it. That shows the credit card company I'm willing to refund his money, and then they would require proof that he had indeed returned it. So I took PayPal's advice and agreed to let him return it. He was livid! He wanted to keep the clarinet, he was just trying weasel me out of $35. He ended up keeping the clarinet and dropping the dispute.
So no Dave, you're wrong. I now always agree to a return, no matter what the circumstances, because for one, in the long run it's good for business to keep your customers happy, and two, I want to avoid any credit card charge backs, and end up losing the money AND the merchandise.
I've probably done more PayPal transaction than any 10 forum members combined. Probably a LOT more. In spite of my stupidity, I don't know how I couldn't help but learn a little bit about the subject.
As far as getting burned by PayPal, DUMB decisions do not count! If you do something stupid, you deserve to get burned.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Phil Smith
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 7717
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 7:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| kal wrote: | | Credit cards all give great buyer protection against fraud and other things. Cash and bank transfers give you nothing. |
Check debit cards are protected. I had 4 or 5 very small charges on my debit card one month that weren't suppose to be there. I reported it to my bank and within a week or so they reversed all the charges.
And why do you need fraud protection when you're doing in-person cash transactions? Only an idiot that needed protection from himself would need that. 
You guys are a paranoid bunch. Why is that? Have you been burned a lot? Maybe what you need is to be more careful with your money, not protection.
I have to concede that paying all your bills online and dealing with one credit card statement is appealing. The only bills I currently pay online is ebay and UPS with my check debit card. Paying bills each week via USPS is a dreaded chore. 
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Phil Smith wrote: |
| Quote: | | Also, PayPal will NEVER recover the full amount as your credit card will. |
What makes you think that Dave? That's simply not true. As a buyer, I've recovered ALL of my money several times. |
If the person closes their bank account, PayPal will leave you holding the bag for $25.
| Quote: | Third, you give up all the legal rights you have with credit cards when you use PayPal.
I use it (it is a necessary evil), but yes, I'm VERY careful with it. |
Again, what makes you think that? [/QUOTE]
Read the PayPal agreement. You agree to this when you use PayPal, you accept their terms of service, which include that you waive your rights to credit card consumer protection laws if you want to use their service, and that you may not issue a chargeback for unauthorized use of your credit card and PayPal account, or if you do, then they have the right to limit your account.
_________________
Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Phil Smith
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 7717
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Person99 wrote: | | If the person closes their bank account, PayPal will leave you holding the bag for $25. |
Where do you get this stuff from? PayPal ebay auction payments are guaranteed for up to $2K, depending on the seller's feedback.
I paid $305 for an auction that was only guaranteed for $200. I got $200 back because there was no money in the seller's account and he had closed his back account. I lost $105. STUPID move on MY part. Lesson learned.
Same senario, except the payment was guaranteed for up to $2K. Paid $350 for a sax, and got $350 back, even though the seller had emptied their PayPal account and closed their back account.
| Quote: | | Read the PayPal agreement. You agree to this when you use PayPal, you accept their terms of service, which include that you waive your rights to credit card consumer protection laws if you want to use their service, and that you may not issue a chargeback for unauthorized use of your credit card and PayPal account, or if you do, then they have the right to limit your account. |
Well that may be the way the agreement is written, but I can tell you from first hand experience that credit card companies can indeed do charge backs on credit card funded PayPal payments. In fact, PayPal has an option for sellers to block payments that are funded by credit cards to avoid that very thing. I don't use it, because it would hurt my sales, but I could block them if I wanted to. If credit card companies can't do charge backs, why would the option to block CC payments exist? There wouldn't be need for it.
I'm confused as to why Dave, but when it comes to PayPal and ebay, you're a plethora of misinformation.
Last edited by Phil Smith on Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Forum powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
|
|
