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Blinx123
Joined: 24 Dec 2007
Posts: 97
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| oliverg wrote: | This just makes me laugh. If anyone thinks this "petition" is going to make one iota of difference .. LOL
Seriously, the 'war' is over already. HD-DVD lost, stop complaining and let it rest in peace with Beta
HD-DVD might never die totally but it will never be a dominant format - that's the way it was even before the Warner announcement. With Paramount about to drop HD-DVD like a hot testicle ..
I've got 34 HD-DVDs and over 100 BRs - I've never cared which side won but having one format is better for us all - regardless of what format it is. The faster HD-DVD shrivels up and dies, the faster studios will start releasing titles like Lord of the Rings etc on BR. |
Where do you got this FUD from? Paramount dropped Blu-Ray not long ago and the news about Paramount dropping HD-DVD were all from the same fake source (it was officially proved to be fake afterwards).
And about Warner droping HD-DVD: This has nothing to do with sales figures and costumers buying more Blu-Ray than HD-DVD but with big cash.
BTW: I don't remember the news of people saying Blu-Ray is dead after Paramount and Universal dropped of. Maybe someone could redirect me 
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:06 am Post subject: |
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Lame. Maybe you should have emailed Toshiba and gotten 100% of all of their employees to sign it. Doh!
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oliverg
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 800
Location: Melbourne, Australia
TV/Projector: Sony G90 X2 - Vidikron Vision 1
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Blinx123 wrote: | | oliverg wrote: | This just makes me laugh. If anyone thinks this "petition" is going to make one iota of difference .. LOL
Seriously, the 'war' is over already. HD-DVD lost, stop complaining and let it rest in peace with Beta
HD-DVD might never die totally but it will never be a dominant format - that's the way it was even before the Warner announcement. With Paramount about to drop HD-DVD like a hot testicle ..
I've got 34 HD-DVDs and over 100 BRs - I've never cared which side won but having one format is better for us all - regardless of what format it is. The faster HD-DVD shrivels up and dies, the faster studios will start releasing titles like Lord of the Rings etc on BR. |
Where do you got this FUD from? Paramount dropped Blu-Ray not long ago and the news about Paramount dropping HD-DVD were all from the same fake source (it was officially proved to be fake afterwards).
And about Warner droping HD-DVD: This has nothing to do with sales figures and costumers buying more Blu-Ray than HD-DVD but with big cash.
BTW: I don't remember the news of people saying Blu-Ray is dead after Paramount and Universal dropped of. Maybe someone could redirect me |
Its hardly FUD. Its reality. HD-DVD is fallen off the cliff face and is rapidly heading towards the ground.
To think anything else is blatant fanboi-ism and denial. 7 BR stable and confident studios vs 2 very shaky HD-DVD ones - on this very fact alone the war is over. Over time, there simply wont be the numbers to make a difference - the gap will widen with each passing week.
Revenue is way down despite the huge price drops (which means nett margin is waaaaay down)
Look at Toshiba's stock prices - they've dropped through the floor - 30% loss in 3 months! Sonys are up 20%. Taking into account the worldwide trend towards recession anyway, this is bad news for Toshiba. This huge dump of HD-DVD players only increases revenue - not profit. Its an artificial way of inflating the numbers.
http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUST6527220080129
Right now Toshiba are trying to strategically position themselves so they can approach Sony and try to get a significant payout for them to drop the format outright. If they just 'gave up' putting the hand out to Sony wouldn't get them anywhere.
Seriously, saying my post is FUD when yours is total denial is a laugh! The worldwide market is voting with its feet.
I give HD-DVD 6 months until it finally "hits the ground". I predict Paramount will be exercising their escape clause as soon as viable for them - their (and Warner's) perspective is that HD-DVD is a sinking ship.
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| oliverg wrote: | Its hardly FUD. Its reality. HD-DVD is fallen off the cliff face and is rapidly heading towards the ground.
To think anything else is blatant fanboi-ism and denial. 7 BR stable and confident studios vs 2 very shaky HD-DVD ones - on this very fact alone the war is over. Over time, there simply wont be the numbers to make a difference - the gap will widen with each passing week.
Revenue is way down despite the huge price drops (which means nett margin is waaaaay down)
Look at Toshiba's stock prices - they've dropped through the floor - 30% loss in 3 months! Sonys are up 20%. Even with the worldwide trend towards recession this is bad news for Toshiba. This huge dump of HD-DVD players only increases revenue - not profit. Its an artificial way of inflating the numbers.
http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUST6527220080129
Right now Toshiba are trying to strategically position themselves so they can approach Sony and try to get a significant payout for them to drop the format outright. If they just 'gave up' putting the hand out to Sony wouldn't get them anywhere.
Seriously, saying my post is FUD when yours is total denial is a laugh! The worldwide market is voting with its feet.
I give HD-DVD 6 months until it finally "hits the ground". I predict Paramount will be exercising their escape clause as soon as viable for them - their (and Warner's) perspective is that HD-DVD is a sinking ship. |
Agreed 110%. Doesn't matter which side you prefer, these are just the hard facts.
Kal
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james69
Joined: 02 Nov 2007
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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i cant believe people still think hddvd has a chance
i just sold my hddvd player and discs for $200 just to get rid of them
i really wanted hddvd to win because of the lack of region coding.... having the extra room for lossless audio is awesome on blu ray
yeah looking at the big picture like how sony is going up in value when the rest of the world is slipping into recession.. ive lost so much because of margin calls
i agree 110% too ... hddvd is almost over.. such a pity
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emdawgz1
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 7949
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| james69 wrote: |
yeah looking at the big picture like how sony is going up in value when the rest of the world is slipping into recession.. ive lost so much because of margin calls
i agree 110% too ... hddvd is almost over.. such a pity |
Margin calls???
Are you day trading? or what. I bought Sony @ 51.00 and i'm still holding it. The fundamentals are solid, Cash Flow, revenue, Cash/liabilities, P/E.
They post a 25% quarterly profit, in spite of the write down due to the PS3 launch. Yet the street still hurts 'em.
Thats ok by me, im looking for some cash to buy more 
Thats me JCE rating Sony (SNE) a strong buy @ 44.00
Take that to the BANK! 8)
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oliverg
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 800
Location: Melbourne, Australia
TV/Projector: Sony G90 X2 - Vidikron Vision 1
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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Well done John!
IMHO they're still a good buy now - as BR becomes more mainstream, the potential is enormous. Microsoft and Sony are two solid performers in a time of uncertainty and woe.
BR will be huge, absolutely no doubt. At the start, the PS3 was seemingly a bad move - but now, it looks as though its really added the final nails in the coffin of the format war. IIRC the head of the PS3 section (Ken Kutaragi) was canned.
Looks like he is owed a huge apology, he's probably single handidly to blame for Sony's excellent performance share wise.
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emdawgz1
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 7949
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| oliverg wrote: | Well done John!
IMHO they're still a good buy now - as BR becomes more mainstream, the potential is enormous. Microsoft and Sony are two solid performers in a time of uncertainty and woe.
BR will be huge, absolutely no doubt. At the start, the PS3 was seemingly a bad move - but now, it looks as though its really added the final nails in the coffin of the format war. IIRC the head of the PS3 section (Ken Kutaragi) was canned.
Looks like he is owed a huge apology, he's probably single handidly to blame for Sony's excellent performance share wise. |
Not single handedly. The Digital Camera division as well as Vaio laptop sales posted a tidy profit as well. Looking @ the sales of the A100 the digital cam biz purchase was a smart move.
But im liking sony for the future. The launch of Sony Home, metalgear, as well as GT5 is going to really boost ps3 sales. I think sony is a bargain @44.00 per share.
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MYoung
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 369
Location: Madison, WI
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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Huh? Sony is a solid buy with looming recession in the US economy?
I should have bought Nintendo a year ago. Though at the time I completely sold out of the stock market to get a down payment for my first house. Toyota, Honda, and Exxon Mobil were my best stocks at the time, though I understand that Exxon Mobil tanked a little after I sold it. I guess I got lucky there. I had Sony for a while in '05 and '06 and it wasn't anything spectacular. Yes, it would suck to own Toshiba stock right now.
I still think it's premature to claim HD DVD is dead when they still have exclusive studios making up 25% of Hollywood and are spending $3 million on a Superbowl ad to promote their product without a retorting ad from Blu-ray. The player costs are also a huge advantage for HD DVD. You may think it's a firesale, but are the uneducated masses going to think that? Call HD DVD dead if Universal or Paramount switch to Blu-ray or become format neutral or if you must, call it dead if player and movie sales don't pick up after their ad campaign.
I think it might have been a mistake for Blu-ray not to advertise in the Superbowl. I also think it's a mistake to be selling their players for so much more with HD DVD still hanging on. Imagine what would happen if they lowered a Blu-ray player to $150. That would devistate HD DVD.
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emdawgz1
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 7949
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| MYoung wrote: | Huh? Sony is a solid buy with looming recession in the US economy?
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Yup.
1. Sony is a Global company. Their biggest market is the us but they sell a lot of product around the globe.
2. Dont believe the hype. The recession isnt "looming" we're in it. It's localized in certain areas and industries but it's HERE.
3. The reasons behind the recession are simple ones.
a. Banking de-regulation allowed the banking industry to spin a HUGE ponzi scheme called Mortgage backed securities.
Theres a ton of them out there and everyone is scared to lend or invest money til they know where the bodies are
buried.
b. Inflation. The HUGE increase in energy costs is dragging down the economy. People are scared to spend because they
dont know if they can heat their house or fill their car next week. It's also caused the price of just about EVERYTHING
to spike.
So why am i optimistic. These things can be fixed if congress gets off their duff and restores some ACCOUNTABILITY in the marketplace.
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garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12088
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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OK, so Congress has to get off their collective dead asses and do the Right Thing -- the Hard Thing -- to fix the mortgage mess. So whyinhell are you optimistic!?
And Congress can't do one damn thing about the increase in energy costs. It is here, it is going to continue, and nothing will stop it until we either come up with an alternate source that can replace oil (don't hold your breath) or our economy crashes so badly that nobody can afford to buy energy anyway. Even if/when the US economy tanks, there will still be plenty of demand for oil in the rest of the world (e.g. China/India) so the prices aren't going to drop significantly for any length of time. Increasing energy costs could very well be with us for the rest of our lifetimes.
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emdawgz1
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 7949
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| garyfritz wrote: | OK, so Congress has to get off their collective dead asses and do the Right Thing -- the Hard Thing -- to fix the mortgage mess. So whyinhell are you optimistic!?
And Congress can't do one damn thing about the increase in energy costs. It is here, it is going to continue, and nothing will stop it until we either come up with an alternate source that can replace oil (don't hold your breath) or our economy crashes so badly that nobody can afford to buy energy anyway. Even if/when the US economy tanks, there will still be plenty of demand for oil in the rest of the world (e.g. China/India) so the prices aren't going to drop significantly for any length of time. Increasing energy costs could very well be with us for the rest of our lifetimes. |
Yeah congress cant do anything about energy.... Lemme ask you this...
If i own the pumps that pump the oil
the tankers that ship the oil
the pipelines that pipe the crude oil
the refineries that refine the product
the pipelines that transfer refined product
the tankers that ship to the stations
the stations that sell the refined product.....
Can you really call that a "free market"?????
Can congress do something about that? 
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DarthXan
Joined: 30 Jan 2008
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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If the war is over the nenjoy your Universal & Paramount titles on blu-ray... oh you can't? Why not? Coz they are HD-DVD exlusive... but the war is over! Oh sh*t...
Its over when 1 side has all studios. Right now HD has the best studios with the most looked after movies (Godfather trilogy, Braveheart, Gladiator, Indiana Jones Trilogy, Back to the future trilogy, jurassic park rilogy, Jaws, Scarface etc)... Once Uni & Para dig into that juicy back catalog, HD DVD will soar.
If they drop it, then yeh it will die, but that hasn't happened yet, and if they are smart they will stay HD exclsuive.
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MYoung
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 369
Location: Madison, WI
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| emdawgz1 wrote: |
So why am i optimistic. These things can be fixed if congress gets off their duff and restores some ACCOUNTABILITY in the marketplace. |
You want to stake an investment on the chance that Congress will actually do something productive? Consumer electronics rarely fares well in recessions. People tend to prefer eating and putting gasoline in their automobiles so they can get to work over buying the latest electronic gadgets. Sony's stock was flat for the last several years. A pick-up in their stock now doesn't mean a sustained pick-up is to follow. While you could be right, that's not a bet I'll take with my hard-earned cash.
As for Blu-ray, if it does beat out HD DVD, it still has to go up against DVD. Again, if people are penny pinching they aren't going to be too keen on rebuying all their movies in HD. Lots of people with HDTVs probably already think they are getting HD with their DVDs thanks to the magic (deception) of upconverting DVD players. It's quite possible that Blu-ray could remain niche and die itself even if it soon kills HD DVD. I wouldn't put hard earned cash on HD as a stock investment, nor would I invest in a CE company that has a history of having a flat stock and too big for its own good.
Not only that, but I don't think Sony makes as good of products as they used to. I think their laptops too proprietary. I cringe whenever I have to work on someone's Viao. I had to buy a hard drive adapter for a client of mine that was around $40. Pretty insane when a ribbon cable and a piece of metal cost more than a hard drive. I know, they aren't mass produced like hard drives are, but still. I'd take a Dell laptop over a Vaio and that's saying something. Their digital cameras are mediocre and overpriced. Canon owns them in that department. It's pretty much the same story for camcorders as well in my opinion, except perhaps professional equipment. I think JVC and Panasonic make better prosumer camcorders at a better value. The exception to my Sony bashing is Sony's Vegas Video, which is a great product. I'm pleasantly surprised that managed not to screw-up that product after buying the desktop software division of Sonic Foundry. It's sad when your best product is the result of a purchasing part of a small company in Wisconsin.
I say all of this as someone with all Sony CRT projectors, a Sony receiver and speakers, 2 Walkmans, an old school Watchman, and even a Sony alarm clock. I'm also in the hunt for a Sony Video 8 tape deck for my business.
There are a lot of companies that do what they do better, charge less, and make more money. Their name isn't what it was, yet they still think it warrants a price premium.
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emdawgz1
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 7949
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| MYoung wrote: | | emdawgz1 wrote: |
So why am i optimistic. These things can be fixed if congress gets off their duff and restores some ACCOUNTABILITY in the marketplace. |
You want to stake an investment on the chance that Congress will actually do something productive? Consumer electronics rarely fares well in recessions. People tend to prefer eating and putting gasoline in their automobiles so they can get to work over buying the latest electronic gadgets. Sony's stock was flat for the last several years. A pick-up in their stock now doesn't mean a sustained pick-up is to follow. While you could be right, that's not a bet I'll take with my hard-earned cash.
As for Blu-ray, if it does beat out HD DVD, it still has to go up against DVD. Again, if people are penny pinching they aren't going to be too keen on rebuying all their movies in HD. Lots of people with HDTVs probably already think they are getting HD with their DVDs thanks to the magic (deception) of upconverting DVD players. It's quite possible that Blu-ray could remain niche and die itself even if it soon kills HD DVD. I wouldn't put hard earned cash on HD as a stock investment, nor would I invest in a CE company that has a history of having a flat stock and too big for its own good.
Not only that, but I don't think Sony makes as good of products as they used to. I think their laptops too proprietary. I cringe whenever I have to work on someone's Viao. I had to buy a hard drive adapter for a client of mine that was around $40. Pretty insane when a ribbon cable and a piece of metal cost more than a hard drive. I know, they aren't mass produced like hard drives are, but still. I'd take a Dell laptop over a Vaio and that's saying something. Their digital cameras are mediocre and overpriced. Canon owns them in that department. It's pretty much the same story for camcorders as well in my opinion, except perhaps professional equipment. I think JVC and Panasonic make better prosumer camcorders at a better value. The exception to my Sony bashing is Sony's Vegas Video, which is a great product. I'm pleasantly surprised that managed not to screw-up that product after buying the desktop software division of Sonic Foundry. It's sad when your best product is the result of a purchasing part of a small company in Wisconsin.
I say all of this as someone with all Sony CRT projectors, a Sony receiver and speakers, 2 Walkmans, an old school Watchman, and even a Sony alarm clock. I'm also in the hunt for a Sony Video 8 tape deck for my business.
There are a lot of companies that do what they do better, charge less, and make more money. Their name isn't what it was, yet they still think it warrants a price premium. |
no i dont think the recession will be very deep or wide. I do think it will last a while. So while some discretionary spending will be curtailed i think the electronics industry will be ok.
If you look at my portfolio i think im in industries that will be ok... w/ the exception of daimler.... im a bit concerned about daimler, but i'm in for the long haul.
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emdawgz1
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 7949
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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As far as your other assertion...
Blu ray has beaten HD-dvd. I know i like to tweak you sony haters about it but its a done deal. HDTV growth is going to be slow but steady. The PS3/BR gamble is not a short term thing. Sony views the ps3 as an hd appliance. W/ the intro of Sony Life ( a virtual world) and internet access as well as hd movies. Sony has a lot of growth potential built into its product. As well as some good products in the pipeline.
So overall i thnk sony is a bargain @ 44.00.
Also remember i'm a Buffett guy.
I dont buy stocks to sell them. I believe in value purchases. If you look at the industry and the companies fundamentals, Sony is a solid buy @ 44.00
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garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12088
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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| emdawgz1 wrote: | Can you really call that a "free market"?????
Can congress do something about that? |
Maybe. Maybe they could crack down on the oil companies to reduce their outrageous profits. (Which aren't all that outrageous, really, if you look at the % profit they make on their business. They're just big numbers because they sell a huge $$ amount of product.)
But the oil-co profits are mouse-nuts compared to the cost of the commodity itself. The price of crude oil drives the price you pay at the pump more than anything else. In 2005 it was 53%, according to the US gummint; see below. Since 2005 the price of crude is up 50%, so the price of the oil probably accounts for well more than 53% now. And Congress can't do a damn thing about the price of oil.
Sure, the higher crude prices generally (not always) translate to more $$ for the oil companies, but their profit margin generally only runs about 7-10%. When you buy gas, you pay more in taxes than you do to oil company profits. Now THAT'S something Congress could do something about. Lower taxes. Ya right...
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:14 am Post subject: |
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Gary, this is an amusing graphical analogy of the oil industry's profit mechanism. I remember a few years ago reading how Barnes & Noble was operating around 2% profit. I wonder how that has changed in the last five years.
Still, if you cannot beat them then why not join them in the profiting? I need to take some of my own advice and by stock in whatever meds all of you are taking.
That's legal meds, of course.
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oliverg
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 800
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:46 am Post subject: |
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If the die hard HD-DVD'ers had to bet their life savings on which way the war was going to end...
What choice would it be?
HD-DVD?
I don't think so
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Gino
Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 1363
Location: Trinity Beach, AUSTRALIA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:37 am Post subject: |
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| oliverg wrote: | If the die hard HD-DVD'ers had to bet their life savings on which way the war was going to end...
What choice would it be?
HD-DVD?
I don't think so |
course they would if they were die-hard?!?! 
i still think the fat lady hasn't even stepped on stage yet, but certainly sounds like lots are waiting in the stadium
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