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jask
Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Posts: 10187
Location: kamloops BC
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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Yes I think those sales/availability and future release numbers take a little wind out of the BR machines sails, I am personally very optomistic that this will be a replay of the VHS/BETA war and that this will drive HD-DVD to pull the pin on the home HD recorder, the cheap one...that records to standard DVD....for all those consumers that do not want to pay 30$ for a show when they can watch it on Sat/Cable.
What? gotta have a dream, right?
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MYoung
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 369
Location: Madison, WI
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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I'd like to see Toshiba start aggressively targeting the HD consumer camcorder market with HD DVD. Get us cheap burners. Get the HD DVD-R media out there and mass produced or at least decent authoring software with the capability to author 3x DVD -- HD DVD on DVD-Rs. Why not make HD DVD authoring software free to consumers and professionals, just like Microsoft has free programming tools for Windows to help ensure that Windows stays software-dominant.
HD DVD is going to start getting starved for content unless Paramount and Universal really pick up Warner's slack at start aggressively releasing older titles. So have the masses start providing their own content. JVC has some very solid HD camcorders. Bundle those camcorders with HD DVD writers or at least solid software to author HD DVD to DVD. It would really be neat to see HD DVD reach out to independent and student HD videographers. There's lots of great content out there that's not from a major studio. 3x DVD has great potential for short films. Granted, that would be a niche market, though with some advertising campaigns, they could bring the fringe to the masses to some extent. Besides, what's HD movies besides niche right now?
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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Actually, why should HD DVD die completely? I mean, didn't the DVD forum standardize HD DVD as the official HD format Digital Video Disk? I would think anyone buying the HD DVD book licensing could release authoring software as a 3rd party as well as license from the forum the right to manufacture writers and players. What am I missing, here?
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greg_mitch
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 5320
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:11 pm Post subject: Re: HD DVD going to war! Yeah, baby! Yeah! |
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| Welwynnick wrote: | | WanMan wrote: | As Toshiba achieved the #1 sales volume in the next generation DVD
category with an approximately 50 percent market share in 2007, HD DVD is
proven to be the format of choice for consumers. |
That's misleading.
They are specifically referring to stand-alone players, yet most blu-ray users buy the PS3, which they don't count in those figures. |
I agree it is misleading but again you can't exactly quantify how many PS3's are solely used as BR players.
| Welwynnick wrote: |
And if HDDVD was the proven format of choice for consumers, Warner New Line and HBO would not have moved to blu-ray. |
You can't be serious can you? New Line and HBO only went to BR because they have to follow Warner. Warner has already issued three different reasons they switched to BR and none of them were very believable. Do you remember the gas prices excuse?
| Welwynnick wrote: |
Under current circumstances, it's quite natural that market forces should drive the price of HDDVD players and discs downwards. Sales would nose-dive otherwise, as supply exceeds demand. Great marketeers that they undoubtedly are, Toshiba are making this sound positive for the format. |
Explain why lower prices for increased volume is bad again. (Walmart?)
| Welwynnick wrote: |
Although this doesn't square with my take on things, there are still good reasons for buying an HD player if the discs are cheap enough to subsidise the player, or if the player comes with enough free discs. The effective cost of the player is then pretty inconsequential.
Only thing is, low player price was HDDVD's strategy last year, and it was shown not to work. Just as everyone didn't chose to buy a cheap DVHS player when HDDVDs came out....
Nick |
Again, I don't quite get this. When the HD-A2 went on sale for $99 how many did they sell? That proved that price didn't matter how?
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scottap
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 177
Location: Palo Alto, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| WanMan wrote: | | Actually, with the ship sunk I would like to keep my HD DVD movies and sell them +10 years from now as collector's items. (Or coasters for the coffee table) |
You wanna buy my laserdisc collection? You can use them as coasters or placemats. 
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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| garyfritz wrote: | They're claiming 50% share in 2007. Assuming that's correct, I wonder what it would have been if more studios supported the format? Given how few movies are available in HDDVD vs. BD, it seems clear to me that the consumers would overwhelmingly go with HDDVD given the choice. It's only Sony's strongarm tactics that are giving BD the upper hand.
But given Sony's strongarm tactics, I really doubt HDDVD will see 50% in 2008. Not with only 20% of the available movies. |
Sony knows that on a level playing field they loose. They have known this from the beginning. Their format is worse for the consumer (region codes, more DRM, higher cost to manufacture thus higher cost to consumer, etc), worse for the studio (higher cost to create interactive features, higher disc manufacturing cost, BD-J incomplete and unstable at the spec level, etc). So, the only way to win is to screw the consumer and hold content hostage. From the beginning it was known that this might catapult them to victory since they own some studios so can always hold that content hostage. Toshiba owns no studios, so there is no content they could 100% guarantee would be held hostage.
Given all this, it still shocks me to this day that any consumer would willing screw themselves by supporting Sony in this. But alas, given that everyday people do things against their best interest, it should not surprise me. It is just hard to accept that we are not any smarter or more educated in the 21st century.
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Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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overclkr
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 4227
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Person99 wrote: | | garyfritz wrote: | They're claiming 50% share in 2007. Assuming that's correct, I wonder what it would have been if more studios supported the format? Given how few movies are available in HDDVD vs. BD, it seems clear to me that the consumers would overwhelmingly go with HDDVD given the choice. It's only Sony's strongarm tactics that are giving BD the upper hand.
But given Sony's strongarm tactics, I really doubt HDDVD will see 50% in 2008. Not with only 20% of the available movies. |
Sony knows that on a level playing field they loose. They have known this from the beginning. Their format is worse for the consumer (region codes, more DRM, higher cost to manufacture thus higher cost to consumer, etc), worse for the studio (higher cost to create interactive features, higher disc manufacturing cost, BD-J incomplete and unstable at the spec level, etc). So, the only way to win is to screw the consumer and hold content hostage. From the beginning it was known that this might catapult them to victory since they own some studios so can always hold that content hostage. Toshiba owns no studios, so there is no content they could 100% guarantee would be held hostage.
Given all this, it still shocks me to this day that any consumer would willing screw themselves by supporting Sony in this. But alas, given that everyday people do things against their best interest, it should not surprise me. It is just hard to accept that we are not any smarter or more educated in the 21st century. |
BRAVO!!!!!! Couldn't have said it better myself.
Sony is by far one of the worst things that could have EVER happened to the consumer........
Cliff
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:11 am Post subject: |
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The problem is, we're smrt here. THe average consumer is an idiot that educates himself via the WalMart greeter. Sad but true. Hell, even the local gadget guy in the local paper buried himself by calling an amp a '200 AMP' amplifier. When we have such benchmarks to go by, it's no wonder this forum membership is increasing..
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nettwerkjohn
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 921
Location: Blenheim, Marlborough, New Zealand
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:27 am Post subject: |
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i just gave away my laserdisc collection, with an almost unused player...
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Bucketfoot
Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Posts: 698
Location: Centennial, CO
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:41 am Post subject: |
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I'm amazed at the relative silence about Sony buying off Fox and Warner. There was an uproar about the Paramount deal, but Sony spends significantly more and nothing 
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perisoft
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2920
Location: Ithaca, NY
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:17 am Post subject: |
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| Curt Palme wrote: | | The problem is, we're smrt here. THe average consumer is an idiot that educates himself via the WalMart greeter. Sad but true. Hell, even the local gadget guy in the local paper buried himself by calling an amp a '200 AMP' amplifier. When we have such benchmarks to go by, it's no wonder this forum membership is increasing.. |
200 amp amplifier, eh? Gotta get me one of those!
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:22 am Post subject: |
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| Curt Plame wrote: | | 200 amp amplifier |
Hey I could heat the garage, listen to music AND arc weld with that.
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HD done right!
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Tom.W
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 6635
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:27 am Post subject: |
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Must be a top secret Krell 
And yes Person99 nailed it !
Last edited by Tom.W on Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:29 am Post subject: |
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| Tom.W wrote: | | Must be a top secret Krell |
I remember when the used a Krell or was is a Levingson to arc weld. They played the 1812 overture and made 2 pieces of metal into one.
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HD done right!
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:19 am Post subject: Re: HD DVD going to war! Yeah, baby! Yeah! |
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| greg_mitch wrote: | | Explain why lower prices for increased volume is bad again. (Walmart?) |
Except Wal-mart isn't lowering the price on the HD-A3 player.
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| Person99 wrote: | | garyfritz wrote: | They're claiming 50% share in 2007. Assuming that's correct, I wonder what it would have been if more studios supported the format? Given how few movies are available in HDDVD vs. BD, it seems clear to me that the consumers would overwhelmingly go with HDDVD given the choice. It's only Sony's strongarm tactics that are giving BD the upper hand.
But given Sony's strongarm tactics, I really doubt HDDVD will see 50% in 2008. Not with only 20% of the available movies. |
Sony knows that on a level playing field they loose. They have known this from the beginning. Their format is worse for the consumer (region codes, more DRM, higher cost to manufacture thus higher cost to consumer, etc), worse for the studio (higher cost to create interactive features, higher disc manufacturing cost, BD-J incomplete and unstable at the spec level, etc). So, the only way to win is to screw the consumer and hold content hostage. From the beginning it was known that this might catapult them to victory since they own some studios so can always hold that content hostage. Toshiba owns no studios, so there is no content they could 100% guarantee would be held hostage.
Given all this, it still shocks me to this day that any consumer would willing screw themselves by supporting Sony in this. But alas, given that everyday people do things against their best interest, it should not surprise me. It is just hard to accept that we are not any smarter or more educated in the 21st century. |
How am I screwing myself when I am getting the movies I want in HD? Neither HD DVD nor Blu-ray offer 100% availability of what titles are important to me. Thus, I am forced in both camps to support both camps. I see no Transformers on Blu-ray, so the pot-kettle calling is absurd to this consumer.
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Welwynnick
Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 229
Location: Welwyn, Herts, UK
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:28 am Post subject: Re: HD DVD going to war! Yeah, baby! Yeah! |
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| WanMan wrote: | | Nick, please remove me as the source of the information. I do not need others to think I am misleading anyone. |
Sure thing; it was meant as Toshiba's quote rather than yours, so that's what it says now.
Nick
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perisoft
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2920
Location: Ithaca, NY
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| AnalogRocks wrote: | | Tom.W wrote: | | Must be a top secret Krell |
I remember when the used a Krell or was is a Levingson to arc weld. They played the 1812 overture and made 2 pieces of metal into one. |
Shouldn't they have gone with, say, Guns'n'Roses? 
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greg_mitch
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 5320
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:59 pm Post subject: Re: HD DVD going to war! Yeah, baby! Yeah! |
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| WanMan wrote: | | greg_mitch wrote: | | Explain why lower prices for increased volume is bad again. (Walmart?) |
Except Wal-mart isn't lowering the price on the HD-A3 player. |
Give them time to react. How long has it been since the announcement?
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, geez - the announcement only came yesterday!!!
| Bucketfoot wrote: | | I'm amazed at the relative silence about Sony buying off Fox and Warner. There was an uproar about the Paramount deal, but Sony spends significantly more and nothing |
That's because it was Sony. It's easy to despise Microshaft and be pissed that they would bank-roll a big buy-off. The 'hate-Microsoft' bandwagon is overflowing with people. Sony... not so much.
I think it's also because many people somehow perceive BD as a vastly superior system. With that paradigm, it's easy to view a Toshiba/Microsoft studio buy-off as unfair, plundering, cheat, while when Sony does the same thing it's a sort of equalizing force and they're just leveling the playing field so the 'good' guy can win against the 'bad' guy. Of course, we here know better. We know that both systems have their pros and cons, and neither is 'vastly superior', and we know that neither company has clean hands or conscience. Microsoft and Sony are both big, evil corporations.
Personally, I think Sony is a whole hell of a lot like Microsoft.
SC
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