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cmjohnson
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 5180
Location: Buried under G90s
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:39 pm Post subject: My considered opinion: The HDMI connector SUCKS! |
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Yeah, I'm sure of it. The HDMI socket on the back of your HD components is a cheap, light duty, poorly constructed,
weak little POS with almost no mechanical integrity, no positive cable retention feature, and is unable to withstand even
light lateral stresses on it in any direction.
For the moment, with my Blu-Ray player, I'm using an HDMI to DVI adapter and a DVI cable to my Marquee's DVI port.
The cable is very carefully suspended and supported by wire ties connected to load-bearing rack equipment in my system
rack, so as to specifically avoid stressing that damnably fragile connector.
Well, guess what? I haven't had the player for a week yet and the HDMI connector is unquestionably flaky. I'm using
the component outputs for the time being as the HDMI connector isn't working.
Warranty or no warranty, I guess I'll have to take the player into my shop and reflow the solder connections on the HDMI
connector and see if that helps. I guarantee nobody will ever know I've been in there.
Frankly I don't expect this player to last long, anyway, as it's made with all lead free solder. Tin whisker formation
will eventually kill it if I don't spend many hours taking off crap solder and putting on some real solder with real lead in it.
I can deal with that.
But I say that the HDMI connector design is unforgivably BAD. Frankly I see NO valid reason why the HDMI connector
has superseded the mechanically superior DVI connector.
Be careful about that HDMI connector, guys. Cabling needs to be VERY well supported. Treat this connector like
the physically delicate POS that it really is.
CJ
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garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12088
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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It's a mess with the Moome EXT-HD box. He has the BNC connectors on the back, and the HDMI connectors on the FRONT. So either your RG59 cable has to bend around to the front of the box (not a good idea) or the HDMI cables have to. And the box has to be close enough to the front of your equipment cabinet for the IR remote to reach it. The HDMI connectors get too much stress.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:50 pm Post subject: Re: My considered opinion: The HDMI connector SUCKS! |
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| cmjohnson wrote: | But I say that the HDMI connector design is unforgivably BAD. Frankly I see NO valid reason why the HDMI connector has superseded the mechanically superior DVI connector.
Be careful about that HDMI connector, guys. Cabling needs to be VERY well supported. Treat this connector like the physically delicate POS that it really is.
CJ |
You're absolutely right - it is a total POS design. The mechanical integrity sucks ass. Let's see - a fat, thick, heavy cable all hanging on a tiny shielded connecter with even tinier contacts... and no mechanical retention. No, that won't cause any problems.
As for why it superseded DVI - it's because DVI doesn't carry audio. The CEA had their panties all in a bunch because Joe Sixpack had to connect a video connector AND an audio connector (oh, the humanity!) (well, and to be fair, because SPDIF doesn't have the bandwidth to carry uncompressed multi-channel audio)... So, they create HDMI to 'simplify' system connections and in the process designed what I believe will be the weakest link in practically any system.
So, to recap, we have a sh*tty physical connector, a bailing wire and duct tape moving-target software 'standard', and expensive super-tight tolerance cables. Sounds like a recipe for success to me!
SC
EDIT - Cable strain isn't too bad with only a plain HDMI cable, but with a DVI cable on a DVI-HDMI adapter, it's a recipe for disaster and will almost certainly kill the HDMI jack on the equipment the contraption is plugged into. I was amazed at just how delicate the HDMI jacks I've come across really are.
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:08 pm Post subject: Re: My considered opinion: The HDMI connector SUCKS! |
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| cmjohnson wrote: | Yeah, I'm sure of it. The HDMI socket on the back of your HD components is a cheap, light duty, poorly constructed,
weak little POS with almost no mechanical integrity, no positive cable retention feature, and is unable to withstand even
light lateral stresses on it in any direction.
But I say that the HDMI connector design is unforgivably BAD. Frankly I see NO valid reason why the HDMI connector
has superseded the mechanically superior DVI connector.
Be careful about that HDMI connector, guys. Cabling needs to be VERY well supported. Treat this connector like
the physically delicate POS that it really is.
CJ |
So what the hell do you know anyways? You'd think you actually knew something about industrial construction based on your posts..
JUST KIDDING OF COURSE! 
I completely concur. I can't wait for the day that some $2000 plasma is written off because the HDMI connector snapped off the PC board and 'parts are no longer available'
Go figure.
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Axatax
Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 403
TV/Projector: Sony VPH-G70Q (aka Barco Cine8 Onyx)
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | it's because DVI doesn't carry audio |
DVI does not carry audio, however, HDMI does, and can travel over DVI cable with audio in tact. HDMI audio is multiplexed with the video data, and not carried over separate pairs - this is why you won't loose your audio when using a pair of HDMI/DVI adapters on cable ends.
So, HDMI could have just kept the DVI connector, and would have still maintained backward compatibility while preserving the audio feature.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, I didn't know audio was muxed on HDMI. I had no idea. That makes the whole physical connector really stupid, then. The only possibly reason I can think of for the smaller physical form factor then is for compactness (panel real estate and ease of fishing) and (possibly) cost. Nice.
SC
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Welwynnick
Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 229
Location: Welwyn, Herts, UK
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| Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| Axatax wrote: | | Quote: | | it's because DVI doesn't carry audio |
DVI does not carry audio, however, HDMI does, and can travel over DVI cable with audio in tact. HDMI audio is multiplexed with the video data, and not carried over separate pairs - this is why you won't loose your audio when using a pair of HDMI/DVI adapters on cable ends.
So, HDMI could have just kept the DVI connector, and would have still maintained backward compatibility while preserving the audio feature. |
Absolutely right, and an even greater cause of frustration. Audio packets fill the blanking periods in the TMDS channels used for video - the same blanking periods that are used by DVI, as it's all uncompressed of course. Worse still:
DVI is physically capable of carrying YCbCr video (same as HDMI), as well as RGB.
DVI can carry 10 or 12 bit video (same as HDMI), not just 8 bit.
DVI connectors and pretty much most cables can carry dual channels for 2560x1600 video - same as HDMI connector B, and double the capability of the universally-adopted connector A.
DVI can carry HDCP protocols and encryption, these are again embedded in the TMDS channels.
So- there is absolutely no technical need for HDMI! My understanding is that the only reasoning for the connection was to have something that didn't need termination in the field and that could be run through trunking.
And don't get me started on HDMI audio. 
Happy New Year!
Nick
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:00 am Post subject: |
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This is starting to sound like a bunch of monkeys using a femur bone for the first time to bash something into place. Here is an original thought ... how about using an HDMI cable out of the player and then changing it to DVI on the other end?
Ok, stepping back to place me outside the range of a swinging femur.
_________________
Trust no one. Absolutely no one. Advice of the board.
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