CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

JBosch · Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:31 pm Post subject: Help with Sony 12XX Setup

Hi everyone. I'm a bit new to this forum. I recently purchased 3 different Sony CRT projectors. I have a 1042Q, a 1270Q, and a 1251Q. I somewhat know how to setup the 1042Q from previous experience with a 1000Q. I am having difficulty with the 12XX projectors. Right now I am wanting to use the 1270Q and leave the 1251Q for a backup. I was working on setting it up last night and I have run into some problems that I hope someone familiar with these can help me with. My first thing is that after looking at the setup tips on this site I noticed that I made a mistake. I moved the screen adjustment pots without knowing what they were. I thought that they were used to shut off the different guns. It says on the setup tips that I need a volt meter to correctly set them up again. Can I have some more details on this? My next question is that the image being projected right now seems to extend past the tube, some of it is being cut off. I read that leaving it this way could possibly lead to the tube imploding, and lord knows I don't want that. Very Happy

How would I go about adjusting that. On that line as well I'd love some tips on how to maximize the raster. My third question is after adjusting the red and blue center adjustments, I get a fairly watch able picture via S-Video (Don't laugh it is all I can have right now). However I seem to be unable to do any kind of bow, skew etc adjustments. When I hit those keys all I get is "Unapplicable". I'm sure this has something to do with the input, but how do I go about adjusting these things. I need to because I am only good in the center. Other parts are not converged. I apologize the the length of this post, but I would greatly appreciate any help you all could offer a relative newbie like me. Mr. Green

P.S. Here are some other details about my installation if you all need them to help me better. I have the projector in a custom built coffee table. The coffee table has the projector sitting 2" off of the ground. The coffee table has plenty of vents so no worries about it getting hot. The top of the table flips up on hinges for access to the setup of the projector. My screen is 10' wide x 6' tall. It is a cheap commercial type that you can either mount on the wall or on the floor by using the aluminum frame to hold it. It will serve it's purpose until my theater is finished and I want something more aesthetically pleasing.

ecrabb · Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 3:10 pm Post subject:

Welcome to Curt's forum!

The 'screen' pots are G2 - which essentially control the voltage to the tubes. If it's too low, blacks will be crushed and you'll miss shadow detail. If it's too high, blacks will be elevated (gray) and your image will lack contrast and like a crappy digital projector. Wink

You don't necessarily need a voltmeter. What you can do is set brightness to 50 and contrast to 60, then adjust each 'screen' control until black areas just barely turn black, then bump it back up a tiny bit - so it's not quite black. You'll want an all black or mostly black image to do that correctly, and you'll want to do it in complete darkness (or the condition which most closely matches that of your viewing conditions - which should be complete darkness or something close to it).

As for the raster, is it the green? If so, the projector is too close to the screen. If it's red or blue, then your toe-in isn't set properly. The 12xx series have only three different screen size ranges, so the raster will be shifted off-center if you're not using one of those pre-defined screen sizes. Use Curt's guide here (it's usually called the 'spring mod' to give your 1270 stepless red/blue tube/lens toe-in:
http://www.curtpalme.com/Sony125x_SpacerMod1.shtm

Also, see this for raster setup:
http://www.curtpalme.com/TubeRasterSetup.shtm

That said, your screen is probably a tad large. 10' wide is pretty large. I run my 1271 on an 8' wide screen, and I get grief for running that size. You could give yourself a significant boost in brightness and/or extend tube life by dropping down to something closer to 8' wide.

As for the convergence adjustments, you need to hold the 'test' key down for 5 seconds - uninterrupted. You'll get a prompt to enter 'service man mode', so press the up-arrow key as directed.

Sounds like you need to go through the setup manual. Go through and do it step by step. It will take a while the first time, but subsequent times will go faster, and the more you do it, the more you'll understand the projector and the relationship of the controls: size/linearity, bow/pincushion, keystone/skew. Each time you do a setup, you'll get better at it and your setup will get better - and your projector will look better and better.

Go here to get know the 12xx and learn about it better. Download the install manual and do it the install setup a few times.
http://www.curtpalme.com/Sony125x.shtm

There are lots and lots of discussions here about 12xx's, screens, setup, etc. Welcome to the addiction that is CRT HT.

SC

JBosch · Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 4:29 pm Post subject:

Thanks ecrabb for the reply. I found my problem just by being able to enter the service menu. The manual I was looking at didn't mention that you have to hold the test button for 5 seconds. Once I was in there I was able to change the RGB size so that nothing is cut off. I'll have to wait till tonight to be able to do further adjustments, because my room is not entirely light controlled. I'd like to ask one further question however. How do you go about removing the lenses? I want to be able to check the condition of the tubes on these 2 projectors. I did look at the set up tips article, and it says I have to slide out the LVPS by removing 2 screws. I see like 10 screws around it, none of which look like they hold it on. The same story goes for the HV block. Is there a better guide to doing this that I have not found? Thanks for all of your help.

ecrabb · Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 4:57 pm Post subject:

The LVPS is held in by two screws on "ears" on the sides of the PSU. They're on each side as you're looking toward the front of the projector, but towards the back of the projector/PSU an inch or two - essentially "recessed".

In this photo, one screw is on the right, just beyond and a little distance back from the face of the power supply and next to the power button, and the other is on the opposite side, the same distance back to the left of the "L" in "LV power supply".

Once the PSU is unscrewed and slid out a couple of inches, and the HV block is loose, it's easy to remove all the screws from the lenses and remove them. Once you've done it, the whole thing takes about 5 minutes max.

SC

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:00 pm Post subject:

I'll add it's handy to have something to rest the power supply on beside the red tube so you don't have to disconnet it completly. Or get a friend over and say "Here hold this for a second" Just to see how long they'll sit there holding it for you. Laughing

JBosch · Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:52 pm Post subject:

You guys rock! Thanks so much. Your advice was spot on there. I got the lenses off of both of my 12XX projectors and I was very pleasantly surprised. I am no expert but I think that the tubes on both projectors are in very good condition. This was very reassuring considering I got the 1270Q for $56 and the 1251Q and 1042Q together for $76. Take a look at the pictures of these tubes and tell me if they look pretty good to you all as well.

1270Q Red

1270Q Green

1270Q Blue

1270Q All Three

1251Q Red

1251Q Green

1251Q Blue

1251Q All Three

ecrabb · Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 12:05 am Post subject:

Wow, the tubes look really nice! Only the slightest hint of wear on the 1251 and none that I can see in the photo of the 1270. Can you tell how many hours they have on them? In service man mode, click the 'page' until you see the hours page.

Man, what a steal you got! I'd pay $56 for 1270 or $76 for a 1251 instead of taking a free digital projector - even a digital that was worth $500. The 12xx is that decent of a machine. Super reliable and easy to setup and use.

You said you haven't seen anything but S-video on it, right? Wait'll you get it set up really well, then add a first-gen HD-DVD player off fleabay ($100) and a used HD Fury ($100) and see 1080i HD on this thing - for a total of under $300, no less! It will blow your mind. If you get it set up well, you can walk into a store and look at practically any 720p digital projector - at any price - and say to yourself, "It's nice, but I like mine better. It looks better. Way better." God, I love seeing projectors that sell for several thousand dollars that I don't like as well as mine that was a fraction of the price.

SC

Zebu Fellenz · Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 2567

Welcome to the Forum,

Those tubes look very nice.

Erik

wallace123456 · Joined: 14 Aug 2006 Posts: 2236 Location: Northwest VA area

Nice looking tubes and the pj looks very clean as well.

Good catch!

wallace

jkruger · Joined: 24 Oct 2007 Posts: 2435 Location: Carlsbad, CA

Sweet looking tubes! You really scored. Very Happy

I'm a newbie as well and the guys here have taught me a lot. You are going to have a very nice setup if you get it up to HD at 1080i. I absolutely love mine. Sure I have seen some much nicer home theaters but for the money the 12xx series can really perform. Welcome to the forum! Thumbs Up

JBosch · Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:57 am Post subject:

Thanks everyone Very Happy

I was really expecting the tubes on the 1270 to have a bit of wear since it doesn't have an hour counter I didn't know how many hours were on it, I was kind of expecting the 1251 to look good because the hour count is only 956 hours. I really can't wait till I get the money to get the HD Fury and a nice HD DVD or BluRay player. Christmas kinda wiped me out for a couple months though. I'll keep you all up to date, and i'm sure i'll have many more questions.

Fujifrontier · Joined: 20 Oct 2007 Posts: 354 Location: San Antonio, Texas

Not to hijack the thread, but do I have to slide out the LVPS to take the lenses off m 1020 as well?

Sonynut · Joined: 08 Aug 2006 Posts: 367 Location: Bradford,PA

IIRC on a 1020, the bracket that holds the lenses slides out the top, with lenses still attached.

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 2:47 am Post subject:

Good lookin' tubes! You'll love the picture these throw when all tweaked out. Thumbs Up

JBosch · Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 2:50 am Post subject:

Well I already have a new question. I was down fiddling and noticed something odd. This is what it does with an all black screen. Has anyone else seen anything similar. These shots were taken from outside the lenses looking in. The result on screen is a faint line on the right side of the screen on all three colors. I'm also seeing some weird what I'd call "voltage looking" lines on the bottom of the red and blue tubes.

Blue Tube

Blue Tube 2

Red Tube

Green Tube

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 3:24 am Post subject:

The 'voltage looking' line is the AKB line, don't wory to much about it.

The vertical line on the other hand seems kind of odd.

Sonynut · Joined: 08 Aug 2006 Posts: 367 Location: Bradford,PA

Pull the lenses and let us see a pic of the tubes lit up.. might give us a better idea. For what its worth, I'd run the 1251.. slightly newer, meaning newer electronics(in age anyhow), plus numerical values during setup that can come in handy. In my experience, the 1251's I have seen have been more stable than either of the 1270's I have had.

Bucketfoot · Joined: 17 Mar 2006 Posts: 698 Location: Centennial, CO

Are the lines inside or outside of your viewing area? If outside, you can use the blanking control to get rid of them.

JBosch · Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 5:15 pm Post subject:

They are inside the viewing area, on the right side of the screen. I'd pull off the lenses again but, I don't really want to mess with snapping the front cover back on. I had them lit up when I had the lenses off and I can say that the lines look pretty much exactly like the pictures shows looking through the lesnses as they do on the tubes themselves.

Sonynut · Joined: 08 Aug 2006 Posts: 367 Location: Bradford,PA

In my personal experience, and an old thread in this forum, I have seen 3 1270's with problems on the "Y"(cpu) board.. this line on the side seemed to fit the bill. I still would recommend running the 1251. It still has plenty of bandwidth for 1080i. Truthfully, to get either of those machines tuned to perfection, the covers will be coming back off anyhow.