CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

nuttall_chris · Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:55 pm Post subject:

Phil Smith · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 7717

nuttall_chris · Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:20 pm Post subject:

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:00 am Post subject:

Is BD+ the second layer of copy protection? I though BR had been rcacked at one time?

Tom.W · Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 6635

PDF on BD+

http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/vectors/brcp.pdf

http://www.blu-raydisc.com/assets/downloadablefile/5th_japan_05-13343.pdf

draganm · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 8990 Location: Colorado

nuttall_chris · Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:49 pm Post subject:

oliverg · Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:18 pm Post subject:

In Australia, for 1k US you can put together a very nice system (especially if you don't need a monitor)

I thought it was quite cheap over in the US to custom build a PC? I saw some on AVS dragan that would easily do the job. One was $500, the guy just wanted to get rid of it.

I wouldn't upgrade the parts in your existing PC, I'd part it out and put whatever you get towards buying a good "new" second hand machine that is up for the task.

Kind regards

nuttall_chris · Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 10:52 pm Post subject:

Phil Smith · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 7717

I spent a fortune upgrading my HTPC last summer and it's already outdated. Crying or Very sad

But my goal was to future proof it for hi def playback, and I did manage to do that. All I need is a drive and a video card and I'm good to go. Maybe a audio card too. I'm not sure what's required.

An 8500GT is all the video card you really need, right? I currently have a 6600GT.

This would be perfect for my needs. HDMI, HDCP and fanless. I can't believe they've gotten so cheap: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127301&Tpk=msi%2b8500GT%2bhdmi

oliverg · Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:21 am Post subject:

Chris and Phil - you got the right idea Wink

If you end up getting external storage - go eSata. Get a motherboard that are newer rather than older. No point getting something that wont be able to handle future technology. (There are times when certain socket types for processors, RAM types etc are totally revolutionised and a "new generation" range is born)

Right now I'm looking at a new storage array. I'm tossing up between upgrading my dedicated server or investing in a NAS. My server is running SBS and has been really great. Its used as my email server, web cache and file server. I'm finding that as a storage medium, its starting to get a bit old in the tooth. Its full of 500Mb hard drives using SATA I in RAID 0 and RAID 1 combinations.

I'm having to upgrade it to either SAS or buy a new RAID card. At that point, throwing a NAS on the network is starting to look like a good idea. I've just found one that supports NFS (I need NFS for my Crystalio 2 VP's media server) and they have been priced in such a way to be very competitive with me just upgrading my SBS server.

Whatever I choose, I want it to last - if I can get 4-5 years out of the next choice I'll be happy - and the reality is, there's a lot of choice out there nowadays and some technology that was only available on an enterprise level is becoming more mainstream and attainable for the average joe. Its great!

Kind regards

Mark_A_W · Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:54 am Post subject:

nuttall_chris · Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:55 am Post subject:

I'm using Nvidia custom resolutions with XP and my 8500GT and it works perfectly.

Chris.

oliverg · Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:50 am Post subject:

Same - I have custom resolutions available through the advanced settings panel.

Powerstrip is over-rated and nowadays there's absolutely no need.

If your display device's EDID is up to date (in our case the HDFury/Moome devices) then there's no problem.

I've got both ATI and nvidia cards here and I much prefer the nvidias.

Mark_A_W · Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:49 am Post subject:

Powerstrip is essential due to the need to run multiple refresh rates, to match the source rates - that's half the point of a PC - so you don't need a $$$ scaler. Powerstrip can be driven by shortcuts or even scripts, making seemless integration possible.

I never had any luck with the Nvidia custom res's. I've tried them on a 6600Gt, 6800GT and 7800GT, and it never accepted small porch settings - it would always jump back to a larger number. And you can only do one custom res - you need to manually change the values each time. Basically it sucks balls.

The only minor issue with the ATi card is I have no Gamma control in Powerdvd, and the AVIVO gamma doesn't work with Powerdvd. I hate Powerdvd, but it's the only game in town for HD-DVD currently.

Nvidia cards are for gaming, end of story.

oliverg · Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:45 am Post subject:

If you are using your PC 50% as a scaler you have a very poor "scaler".

Scalers today aren't just scalers, they are video processors. They handle multiple sources and interfaces. How many sources can a HTPC act as a scaler for?

Once I got a real VP I realised just how limited my HTPC was. After running my HTPC through a VP, PQ is enhanced greatly.
A HTPC is a very poor subsitute for a real VP.

As for Nvidia cards being just for games, you are absolutely dead wrong. There's a lot of people using HTPCs with Nvidia cards who are extremely happy with them. Maybe they don't do all of what you want them to do, but for 99% of the users out there, they are more than adequate.

Mark_A_W · Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:26 am Post subject:

Bluray
HD-DVD
OTA HD with multiple tuner cards, and lots of storage, timeshifting, etc.
DVD
TS/h264 files
Games

Other than DVHS (dead) and US based HD (irrelevant to me) there really isn't a source it can't handle.

I have no need for a scaler, the PC does it all, and it's cheap. The output from my PC is as good as any scaler I've seen, so it's good enough for me.

If you have a scaler, what on earth do you need a HTPC for? They are mutually exclusive. If you play games from the PC, scaled through the scaler, it's not a HTPC, it's a gaming rig.

Nvidia cards VC1/h264 acceleration doesn't work, Powerstrip doesn't work = they are gaming cards. The only HTPC related feature they have is the tweakable gamma curve - that's quite nice.

oliverg · Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:30 am Post subject:

Mark - like I said, scale away - but after you try out a video processor - then get back to me

They are so far from being mutually exclusive ... but I guess you haven't had a reasonable quality VP to try out.

As for VC1/h264 acceleration, mine's working pefectly Smile

Mark_A_W · Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:21 am Post subject:

I've seen a VP50 and a HD+, neither looked any better than my PC, even on a G90. My friend with the VP50 is selling it as he doesn't see the point, he doesn't notice 60hz judder (which drives me bananas), so the scaler does nothing that a HDMI switcher can't do for him. He can't justify a few grand to get rid of the judder he doesn't see.

Scale? I don't watch DVD any more very often, so the function of scaling is irrelevent.

I just don't get the point of a Scaler, other than convienience. They offer nothing my PC can't do, and cost HEAPS. You need at least a VP50 to perform IVTC from 1080 60i, something which my PC does at a fraction of the cost. More hassle, yes, but much cheaper.

I don't have the money to through at these toys that you seem to. I have a $500 (ok, $1200 landed) XG LC, a home built, fully active audio system, and a PC. I don't want or need a Scaler.

And I really, really don't see the point of running a PC through a scaler. WHY??

oliverg · Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:59 am Post subject:

Mark, you need to try a VP out for a good week or two before you can get the most out of it. OK, so your friend doesn't see the benefit - what you just told me is that you personally aren't able to give an informed observation so you are relying on a friend's judgement to do it for you. You need to do undertake a proper evaluation, which takes time.

The way you keep calling VPs "scalers" is case in point. If they were just "scalers" then you might have a point, but they are far more than that. The video processing abilities of a dedicated chipset, like Gennum's VXP or the high end Teranex processors makes a PC acting as a VP look like a toy. A PC has very limited abilities in comparison.

Don't you think the broadcast stuidos would use a PC solution instead of investing a tens of thousands of dollars in dedicated video processors?

A HTPC is good at what it does as a display source - but when combined with a good quality VP, you're leveraging technology in such a way to get that extra 5% performance, which makes a difference.

If you're happy with what you have, that's great. But claiming that a HTPC can keep up with medium to high end video processors is as naive as claiming nvidia cards are only good for gaming. I'm quite surprised Mark, you often strke me as being thoughtful and technically adept, but when it comes to HTPCs you totally overestimate their capabilities.

If you get a chance to try out a Vantage / Crystalio 2 or VP50, do yourself a favour and give one a fair go. If you are happy with your HTPCs performance now, you will be totally delighted with what you see.