CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[ecrabb]

[JustGreg]

I like the attention to detail in the curtain where the first bottom gold lines from the walls carry across the gold braid of the curtain.

How will the cleaning staff dust the relief work way up high near the ceiling?

[stefuel]

[Tom.W]

Sorry to hear of the funeral Arnold. As for automation if Arnold needs advise he has plenty of friends here for free advise but I doubt he really needs it....

[Spanky Ham]

[drice1234]

[ecrabb]

[Spanky Ham]

[Spanky Ham]

Crabb beat me to it.

[drice1234]

[psartana]

I am new to this forum. Arnold, there are no words to describe your HT. I am sure it will bring you and your family, a lifetime of entertainment and enjoyment.

By the way, when are you installing your surround speakers??

[stefuel]

I can't believe that some of you can't wrap your brain around the value of a decent automation system in a complex and expensive home theater. Arnolds theater doesn't even count in this arguement. I'll use my setup as a example and although Arnolds theater is dozens of times bigger than mine, I'd be willing to bet the farm that it's no way more complicated than mine. Also, as most here will agree, in this day and age CRT projectors connectivity has become a bit more complicated. With that said, I kike everyone else here has a....

CRT projector. A CRT projector requires that every source have it's own memory location where it's signal is optimized for that signals timings along with color adjustment. My system has memory locations for the following.

Fios std def 4:3 material
Fios HD widescreen
BD
DVD std def 4:3
DVD widescreen
VHS
Security DVR
Hi8

All of these end up passing through a NEC switcher that feeds the projector. Some of them go throuh a scaler first, some are raw feed. Some signals have to go through a HDMI adapter and then to a HDMI switcher prior to the NEC switcher.
Then you have the audio system. Some are optical. Some are coaxial and some are just stereo R & L. Before I can consider how to control everything, I need to know how they are best controlled. In my case, the projector is best controlled via serial (RS-232) which is absolutely bullit proof and also provides text feedback for error messages. Not that I ever have them with a AmPro

All of this is all well and good IF I'm the only one using the theater because I know what everything needs to be set to.
However, there's more than one person in the house and the occasional guest who would be lost and probably do harm to my system with random button presses while trying to figure it out. Another down side to factory remotes is that after spending money (or time) on system calibration, someone could accidently change parameters in setup screens and ruin everything. My system does not allow that to happen.

There is no source that is more than 2 button presses away. The system is intuitive enough for a complete stranger and my autistic son to manage with ease without the fear of someone getting into service menus to screw things up. That is all password protected right at the touchscreen.

The WOW factor of my automation system equals the theater and costs as much but I'm happy with it and wouldn't have it any other way.

[stefuel]

Oh, I forgot to say that without (at the very least) a universal remote for the IR devices, it would take 9 remotes to control my theater and would still have to turn on my projector with the supplied wired remote.

That's a lot of batteries to throw away in a "green house".

[drice1234]

[stefuel]

What it all boils down to is it's Arnolds house, it's the way HE wants it and that's all that counts.

However, if it were my house, with all the complcated systems it has, the theater would be the smallest part of the automation picture. It would be nice to monitor them all from the comfort of one centralized location. Including but not limited to,

The whole theater
HVAC
Lighting
Security
irrigation
Internet
Weather

All from any touchscreen in the house if so desired and in the hands of the right certified programmer will be as close to bullit proof as you can get.

I do not want to discuss this any further as this thread is about Arnolds theater and not about the mechanics of the rest of the house. His project is almost complete, he's happy and I'm happy for him

[ecrabb]

[perisoft]

So, Arnold... seeing the real scale of that room... the question is: Are you going to have a home home theater for just slouching down with a tub of popcorn and an action flick?

[JustGreg]

It also depends on what other functions the room will be used for. I didn't read every single post in this thread but I 'think' it's also going to be used for business meetings and presentations. If that's the case automation might be a 'must have'.

But he's also said he's perfectly happy with a pile of remotes...I'm the same way. If he wants it easy for the uninitiated to be able to use the room then a more complex (to setup and maintain) one remote solution would be best IMO.

He'll also be needing one big assed laser pointer too!

[achase]

Hello Guys,

There are about four sub-threads going on, so I'll try to touch upon them all.

The seat installers did not show up yesterday as promised. My project manager called them about noon yesterday to see what was going on. Their reply, "Oh, we're still on another job" did NOT go over well with my project manager. After having this happen repeatedly with different companies over the last few weeks, I am absolutely perplexed as to why this is happening during a time when people are supposedly desperate for work. During the peak of the construction "bubble" I never saw it as bad as this...

Now the good news:

Despite the seat installers not showing up yesterday, they arrived at 7:30 this morning with six or seven guys. In under five hours, they totally completed the job! This INCLUDES spending over 30 minutes with me altering the seat placement within the risers. I have NEVER seen a more efficient work crew in my career!!! Things such as drilling the holes through the carpet and concrete, and then vacuuming, were combined into a single step by the use of a "home made" sleeve that surrounded the drill bit and attached to a 30' long vacuum hose to a shop vacuum. What was expected to take two days was accomplished in about a quarter of that. With the exception of a few minor items remaining such as electrical receptacle installation, door upholstery, etc., the theater structure is now done. I'll try to post the final pictures tonight.

With regard to the automation question, the answer is not as "black and white" as it might seem. Because of the non-typical characteristics of this house, even Crestron [type] solutions don't neatly fit. In a nutshell, while it is theoretically possible to have a home automation system do everything, (a) do you really want to scroll through 500 pages to get to something?, and (b) I would think it is VERY dangerous to put ALL of the critical management systems onto one piece of consumer hardware that eventually WILL fail and take EVERYTHING down with it. In this situation, I look at the home automation systems like I do the "100 in one" function tools: yes, you are provided with a pliers function, but given a choice, I would ALWAYS go with a "real" set of pliers.

Chip brought up the following categories as automation candidates:

The whole theater

Because I have the theater lighting controlled by a LiteTouch system (with a wired remote by "my" seat), I am able to custom program buttons to do just about anything. The LiteTouch has a serial output, as well as any number of dry contact closures. True, I do not have a CD screen to show status, but do I really want a glowing screen next to me during a film?

HVAC

The entire house is controlled by a commercial Direct Digital Control (DDC) system. In the theater the DDC monitors temperature from multiple sensors, the CO2 level coming from the theater, and the humidity level. Everything is programmable down to the percent of motor speeds for a given condition, what the maximum CO2 level is maintained to (by bringing in outside air), and what percentage the chilled water or hot water loop valves should go to. The volume of information in the system is really a function of the number (and type) of sensor points. Theoretically one could program a Crestron to show everything, but unless the programming capabilities can match that of mature building system protocols such as BACnet, then I would argue that a stand-alone DDC would be far superior for this application. BTW, ALL of the real-time data is retrievable on a PC (or I-Pad) if you were really dying to know what the water temperature and pressure of the chilled water loop was during your movie. Since virtually every room in the house has it's own thermostat, the outside temperature, humidity, and room temperatures are always displayed, negating the need for a touch screen to duplicate that information.

Lighting

If the Crestron can do things the LiteTouch can't, please let me know. My LiteTouch has both momentary as well as held input modules, as well as LV relay outputs.

Security

This would require a LONG discussion, but in a nutshell, like the DDC comparison, basic functions can be accommodated, but when you start looking for commercial safety ratings, I don't think the home automation systems can even start to compare.

Irrigation

See DDC section for a complete analogous situation. Could you really (practically) program a Crestron to analyze how much water actually flowed into a zone vs. the calculated (expected) amount for the number of minutes run to get a deviation alarm? As with the DDC, ALL information is also remotely available on a PC (or I-Pad).

Internet

I prefer to use a "real" computer

Weather

see thermostats in the HVAC section



Got to run - more later

[stefuel]

Please note that in my last post I did not suggest that all systems be "controlled" but Crestron automation. What I said was it would "be nice to monitor them". Big difference.
Also, the touchscreens have a programmable time out. Mine go dark (standby) two minutes after the last button press.

What happened to the "I'm not a big fan of automation" you have way more then I thought you have already
I still stand by my advice to automate the theater. That puts the conversation back on track.