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Gary M.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 3:20 am Post subject: |
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| dropzone7 wrote: | | I have gone back and read this entire thread and I have to say I'm a little worried about some of the comments. I had forgotten some of Jerry's observations about having to turn brightness up to 80 and 90 initially and then down to 65 once he modded the card. That's still pretty high considering I like mine in the 48 to 50 range personally. I don't want to have to loose out on nice black level because I'm having to turn up the brightness so much. That coupled with the fact that KennyG claims the gamma curve is better suited to Sony CRT's makes me wonder if I might better leave well enough alone. I'm so confused... |
having to turn up the brightness on the XG won't affect anything that much, well sort of
a old trick of ISF calibrators is to turn down the brightness on the display and compensate at the source, this keeps the display down out of some of the muck so to speak and less streaking 
with the moome card I have my XG down in high 30s low 40s and then compensate with the VP50pro scaler up on about +75 out of -100 to +100, I love what it does for the image
this doesn't help you I know, just wanted to say my piece
if you can swing it, my advice would be to get the VP50 scaler and the moome card and enjoy, the image you will get won't make you have 2nd thoughts EVER, not once
turning up the brightness on the XG won't cost you anything though, and it won't cost you your blacks at all
-Gary
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 3:49 am Post subject: |
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| Gary M. wrote: |
if you can swing it, my advice would be to get the VP50 scaler and the moome card and enjoy, the image you will get won't make you have 2nd thoughts EVER, not once
turning up the brightness on the XG won't cost you anything though, and it won't cost you your blacks at all
-Gary |
Gary, What's the real difference in the VP50pro and the non-pro? On the spec sheet it looks like it is improvement in SD image enhancement and THX certification, I could care less about either. I realize this is a little OT for this thread, but it does apply if you want to get the most out of your Moome card.
Mike
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Doing HD since the last century!
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Gary M.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 3:56 am Post subject: |
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pro gets you a few SD/HD enhancements that do matter a little bit including separate edge and detail enhancement and mosquito NR
MNR is nice for satellite and DVD(including HD), edge control in the minus can work as sort of a block reduction as well for any source
you also gets HD-SDI capability(with input board) on the pro vs just SD-SDI on the regular VP50
THX certification matters for the analog BNC output which you probably wouldn't use 
-Gary
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 4:07 am Post subject: |
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| Gary M. wrote: | pro gets you a few SD/HD enhancements that do matter a little bit including separate edge and detail enhancement and mosquito NR
MNR is nice for satellite and DVD(including HD), edge control in the minus can work as sort of a block reduction as well for any source
you also gets HD-SDI capability(with input board) on the pro vs just SD-SDI on the regular VP50
THX certification matters for the analog BNC output which you probably wouldn't use
-Gary |
Thanks Gary!
Mike
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Doing HD since the last century!
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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Guys, I think you are selling me on a scaler now. It would be cool to be able to try custom resolutions, refresh rates and to be able to confirm what is being sent to the projector. I have never used anything but 1080i/60hz. It sounds like I might benefit from 1080i/72hz or 96hz which is something I could only do with a scaler or HTPC. Since I have no desire to use a HTPC then the VP50 sounds like a good fit for me. Mike, that link you sent me for the refurb units looks promising and I think I may get that before buying the XG-FULLHD card. That way I can practice with it and learn what I'm doing. Hell, I might as well go ahead and order both. If I'm going to use this projector for a few more years then I want to do it right. God, my wife is going to kill me...
Oh, another thing. Since the VP50 is powered would I be able to use it to boost the HDMI voltage from my Onkyo receiver and do away with the power supply I'm using with my HDFury or more importantly, would it sufficiently power the HDMI signal over a 25-30' HDMI cable to the XG-FULLHD card? If I don't go the scaler route but do end up using the XG-FULLHD then I know I'm going to need an HDMI repeater. Just thinking that the VP50 might solve that problem for me as well.
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Gary M.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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the DVDO units power 50 foot HDMI cables with no issues, I am doing it right now and have been for many years
the DVDO units have very hot HDMI output for this reason
I run all sources into my Onkyo pre-amp, then send the output into one of the HDMI inputs, then out of the VP50pro to the moome HDMI in my 1352, everything is perfect
-Gary
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Gary. I'm going to get one for sure. Be prepared to have your brain picked when it shows up!
BTW, nice little PPK you posted over on AVS!
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"Coffee is for Closers."
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Gary M.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| dropzone7 wrote: | Thanks Gary. I'm going to get one for sure. Be prepared to have your brain picked when it shows up!
BTW, nice little PPK you posted over on AVS! |
no problem at all, glad to help
you mean this one, I heard they went back to the PPK in QoS, any truth to that? :
-Gary
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:32 am Post subject: |
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| Gary M. wrote: |
no problem at all, glad to help
you mean this one, I heard they went back to the PPK in QoS, any truth to that? :
-Gary |
Yeah, that little puppy there! That's slick. A buddy of mine would love to have one of those I'm sure. I need to pick up a few more handguns before they get harder to come by. I remember a few years ago it seemed like that was all I was buying. It seems like Bond did use the PPK in QOS but the movie was so fast paced that you didn't see anything on screen for long. It was kind of a disappointment really after Casino Royale. I loved that movie but QOS is nothing like it.
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I finally broke down and ordered a scaler. A refurb VP50 should be on it's way to me soon. Also, thanks to someone who shall remain nameless at this time (in case he doesn't want to reveal his plans just yet), I have an XG-FULLHD card headed my way.
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"Coffee is for Closers."
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HD-DAVE
Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 225
Location: Delta, BC
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:56 pm Post subject: DVDO Edge a FIX for 1080p streaking / foldover on XG' s ? |
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Hi everyone,
Someone posted about the new DVDO edge ==> has anyone tried this to see if it will fix the 1080p streaking problem on the Nec XG I am seeing thru my Moome card ? I am still forced to live with only 1080i/60 on my XG1351 ( from my Samsung Blu-ray)... I would much rather be able to go to 1080p/24 !
I read Anchor Bay's description of their "PReP" Progressive-to-Interlaced-back-to-Progressive processing but it does not say that it corrects for porch/timing flaws...is there a full-blooded technical eval of this product on the web yet ?
Thanks,
Dave
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Gary M.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:17 am Post subject: |
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what kind of streaking problem are you having?, 1080p in 16:9 for a 8" CRT is a bit much IMHO, I wouldn't do it
the Edge is pretty much a VP50 lite, you don't have custom resolution ability which would most likely fix your problem with porch conrol
-Gary
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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Just wanted to pop in here quickly and mention that I had the opportunity last night to install my XG-FULLHD card. It’s still a bit early for me to make a fair assessment, especially considering that my convergence now needs work after the card install. I also have to preface this by saying that while I can appreciate a good image on any display, I’m not sure I have the discerning eye for detail that a lot of you guys here have. That being said, I found the changes I made last night very promising. I should also mention that I not only installed this XG-FULLHD card but also added a VP50 scaler to my video chain, the first scaler/processor I have ever owned. So, you can imagine that the learning curve was quite steep for me. First the Moome card. Installation could not have been more simple which was a relieve to me. As a matter of fact, I had more trouble running my 20’ HDMI cable through the attic than I did installing this card. It literally is a matter of removing two screws and replacing the blank panel with this card. The Moome card looked physically like it was always in the XG. That is to say, it doesn’t look like a mod or add on but rather an OEM piece. The first thing I noticed which Gary Murrell had mentioned in his review was that the loud image sync click from the XG was gone! I copied my 1080i entry from input A of the projector to a new entry at input C and aside from some convergence work it worked very smoothly. I figured that I am about as familiar with the Fifth Element on Blu Ray as any other title I have so that was the first thing I popped in the Panasonic BD30 player. My split second first impression of the image was that it was noticeably sharper than my previous setup (RTC2200 and HD Fury by the way) and I was pretty sure that I was seeing a vividness of color that was not present before. Previous user reviews of this card kept coming to mind and I have to say that I agree with most everything that has been said here. For instance, a comment regarding less noise in the image really made sense to me as that was my impression as well. An overall smoothness which cleaned up the image a good bit without softening fine details in the slightest. I switched back and forth between my sources (Blu Ray, HD-DVD, HD Cable) and never once did the card miss a beat or the projector click like it used to when changing sources. I have to say that one issue I was really concerned about did not translate to my setup. I had read about users having to bump up brightness to levels well beyond their normal settings after installing this card. I made absolutely no changes to my brightness or contrast in the projector. I realize that I am going to have to tweak these settings as well as grayscale in order to verify they are correct but I was really relieved to see that I will most likely be able to maintain something close to my default picture adjustments. I should also add that I have not touched the gamma adjustment on the card as its former owner (thanks Gary!) assured me that he had dialed it in already. I suppose that I might have to tweak that a bit down the road seeing as how there are obviously differences between his and my setups but I like what I’m seeing right now. While I did not have a chance to do any real calibration work last night, I did flip through the test patterns in the projector as well as the VP50. The grayscale pattern built into the XG looked very different than what I had seen with my previous setup. There was much more differentiation between the steps and I could clearly see each step from white to black with a detail that was not there before. So, basically those are my first thoughts on the card. I think things will only improve from here and I will comment more once I have my convergence fixed for the new input. Although I did add the VP50 scaler to the mix as well, I suppose this thread is not really the place to comment on that so I will probably start a new one since I have MANY questions already.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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HD-DAVE
Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 225
Location: Delta, BC
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| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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Gary, my streaking problem was when I chose the 1080p/60 output on my samsung blu-ray.The image was folded over at both sides and there was noticeable streaking / banding in the image, presumably because the timings out of the Samsing are somehow wrong and perhaps DC restoration ccts are getting confused. I was able to fix some of the foldover using but the streaking never went away... 
I don't agree with your comment about the XG not being capable of 1080p - I am getting a very nice image at 1080i which has the same amount of pixels being displayed in the same raster space, with the exception that the frames are interlaced...correct me if I am wrong but my understading is that going to (1080p) progressive scan just requires higher sync frequency abilities and video bandwidth (?)...all of which my XG (I have the 1351) has in spades. The set is supposed to have 2500x2500 addressable resolution as well, but I realize this addressable and viewable are two different things.
Would love to hear from anyone who has tried an Edge with their XG at 1080p !
Thanks,
Dave
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| dropzone7 wrote: | | Just wanted to pop in here quickly and mention that I had the opportunity last night to install my XG-FULLHD card. It’s still a bit early for me to make a fair assessment, especially considering that my convergence now needs work after the card install. I also have to preface this by saying that while I can appreciate a good image on any display, I’m not sure I have the discerning eye for detail that a lot of you guys here have. That being said, I found the changes I made last night very promising. I should also mention that I not only installed this XG-FULLHD card but also added a VP50 scaler to my video chain, the first scaler/processor I have ever owned. So, you can imagine that the learning curve was quite steep for me. First the Moome card. Installation could not have been more simple which was a relieve to me. As a matter of fact, I had more trouble running my 20’ HDMI cable through the attic than I did installing this card. It literally is a matter of removing two screws and replacing the blank panel with this card. The Moome card looked physically like it was always in the XG. That is to say, it doesn’t look like a mod or add on but rather an OEM piece. The first thing I noticed which Gary Murrell had mentioned in his review was that the loud image sync click from the XG was gone! I copied my 1080i entry from input A of the projector to a new entry at input C and aside from some convergence work it worked very smoothly. I figured that I am about as familiar with the Fifth Element on Blu Ray as any other title I have so that was the first thing I popped in the Panasonic BD30 player. My split second first impression of the image was that it was noticeably sharper than my previous setup (RTC2200 and HD Fury by the way) and I was pretty sure that I was seeing a vividness of color that was not present before. Previous user reviews of this card kept coming to mind and I have to say that I agree with most everything that has been said here. For instance, a comment regarding less noise in the image really made sense to me as that was my impression as well. An overall smoothness which cleaned up the image a good bit without softening fine details in the slightest. I switched back and forth between my sources (Blu Ray, HD-DVD, HD Cable) and never once did the card miss a beat or the projector click like it used to when changing sources. I have to say that one issue I was really concerned about did not translate to my setup. I had read about users having to bump up brightness to levels well beyond their normal settings after installing this card. I made absolutely no changes to my brightness or contrast in the projector. I realize that I am going to have to tweak these settings as well as grayscale in order to verify they are correct but I was really relieved to see that I will most likely be able to maintain something close to my default picture adjustments. I should also add that I have not touched the gamma adjustment on the card as its former owner (thanks Gary!) assured me that he had dialed it in already. I suppose that I might have to tweak that a bit down the road seeing as how there are obviously differences between his and my setups but I like what I’m seeing right now. While I did not have a chance to do any real calibration work last night, I did flip through the test patterns in the projector as well as the VP50. The grayscale pattern built into the XG looked very different than what I had seen with my previous setup. There was much more differentiation between the steps and I could clearly see each step from white to black with a detail that was not there before. So, basically those are my first thoughts on the card. I think things will only improve from here and I will comment more once I have my convergence fixed for the new input. Although I did add the VP50 scaler to the mix as well, I suppose this thread is not really the place to comment on that so I will probably start a new one since I have MANY questions already. |
Thanks for the review, I'm looking foward to hearing about custom resolutions and refresh rates.
Mike
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dperrier
Joined: 17 Dec 2008
Posts: 1
Location: Alberta, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:12 am Post subject: XG135LC |
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I am a DVDO dealer, and use the gear in Home Theater installs.
I have tried the Edge and it can only do 1080i with the XG135LC, I currently use a DVDO VP30 which I will now sell in my demo suite and move to the VP50Pro, the Edge works great but doesn't have the low level controls to sync with the XG135LC. The VP30 works great but can't use HDMI.
If anyone wants a demo Edge, VP30 or a VP50 or VP50pro in Canada, our pricing here is now pretty reasonable even compared to refurbished etc. with the new dollar exchange.
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jarseneau
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 323
Location: WI
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:16 am Post subject: |
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| YGPMOLE wrote: | Hi Moome!
Thank you for your quick reply!!!
| moome wrote: | the way to recover for 0.7V, please prepare a meter, to measure C203 two node, it should be 0.90V,
if not please ajust the contrast pot. |
Sorry if could seems a stupid question but, where is the "C203 two node"? On the Input Card or is a testing point on the projector??!?
| moome wrote: | | and XG-FULLHD no width function on it, you need adjust on XG manu! |
Yes, the only way to obtain the right image size with the PS3 was to use 1080i resolution...
But it looks great and every issues about re-tracing and orizontal banding it's definitly disappeared!!!
Best Regards! Leonardo! |
So tonite I suddenly realized what C203 two node meant..It's Englishese for measure the voltage across C203. C203 is about in the center of the board but you only find the number for it in a box of numbers near the faceplate because there isn't room to print them right next to the components. You actually need to solder some small wire to the two ends of the C203 capacitor (which is an SMD device so pretty small) and then connect the meter to the wire. I tried it out and the voltage does change with the contrast pot and I dialed in the 0.90 value.
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Jerry
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
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TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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