|
As this forum is rarely used anymore, we've locked it. Feel free to browse and read. Questions? Please reach out to us directly. Cheers! |
|
 |
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Gary M.
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Drop, to be honest I have not compared the 8-bit RGB DVI in on the new card vs the old DVI only one, I have been waiting years for 4:2:2 10-bit capability, thus my excitement, this drastically improves all sources from SD DVD to satellite crap HD(which is loads better) to obviously BD and HD-DVD, amazing stuff !!!
the Panasonic BD30 outputs 10-bit 4:2:2 HDMI into the moome card just fine, a scaler is not the only source for 10-bit 4:2:2 
all the Toshiba players output 4:2:2 HDMI as well, the Panasonic BD30 is the first BD player I have looked at that does, everything else was 4:4:4, Oppo 980H in addition to many high-end SD DVD players outputs 4:2:2 as well
high-end scaler systems have such a improvement because the new scalers do everything in 10-bit and can output that as such, but I am sorry for the confusion, you DO NOT have to have a scaler to source 10-bit 4:2:2 HDMI  you just have to check around or ask someone like me to check a device for you to find out what a component is outputting via HDMI
-Gary
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Gary M. wrote: | Drop, to be honest I have not compared the 8-bit RGB DVI in on the new card vs the old DVI only one, I have been waiting years for 4:2:2 10-bit capability, thus my excitement, this drastically improves all sources from SD DVD to satellite crap HD(which is loads better) to obviously BD and HD-DVD, amazing stuff !!!
the Panasonic BD30 outputs 10-bit 4:2:2 HDMI into the moome card just fine, a scaler is not the only source for 10-bit 4:2:2
all the Toshiba players output 4:2:2 HDMI as well, the Panasonic BD30 is the first BD player I have looked at that does, everything else was 4:4:4, Oppo 980H in addition to many high-end SD DVD players outputs 4:2:2 as well
high-end scaler systems have such a improvement because the new scalers do everything in 10-bit and can output that as such, but I am sorry for the confusion, you DO NOT have to have a scaler to source 10-bit 4:2:2 HDMI you just have to check around or ask someone like me to check a device for you to find out what a component is outputting via HDMI
-Gary |
Well, that's good to hear! I do have the BD30 and love it. Does it output this by default or is there a menu option that needs to be changed? I also have a Toshiba HD player so I guess that is covered as well. Does running these devices through my Onkyo HDMI switching receiver defeat or get in the way of the 4:2:2 10-bit output? Thanks again for your input on the card Gary!
_________________
"Coffee is for Closers."
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gary M.
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| dropzone7 wrote: | | Gary M. wrote: | Drop, to be honest I have not compared the 8-bit RGB DVI in on the new card vs the old DVI only one, I have been waiting years for 4:2:2 10-bit capability, thus my excitement, this drastically improves all sources from SD DVD to satellite crap HD(which is loads better) to obviously BD and HD-DVD, amazing stuff !!!
the Panasonic BD30 outputs 10-bit 4:2:2 HDMI into the moome card just fine, a scaler is not the only source for 10-bit 4:2:2
all the Toshiba players output 4:2:2 HDMI as well, the Panasonic BD30 is the first BD player I have looked at that does, everything else was 4:4:4, Oppo 980H in addition to many high-end SD DVD players outputs 4:2:2 as well
high-end scaler systems have such a improvement because the new scalers do everything in 10-bit and can output that as such, but I am sorry for the confusion, you DO NOT have to have a scaler to source 10-bit 4:2:2 HDMI you just have to check around or ask someone like me to check a device for you to find out what a component is outputting via HDMI
-Gary |
Well, that's good to hear! I do have the BD30 and love it. Does it output this by default or is there a menu option that needs to be changed? I also have a Toshiba HD player so I guess that is covered as well. Does running these devices through my Onkyo HDMI switching receiver defeat or get in the way of the 4:2:2 10-bit output? Thanks again for your input on the card Gary!
|
Drop, yes running thru something can defeat 4:2:2 or worse do a conversion, even switchers can cause devices to default to other colorspaces or worse RGB, on the Onkyo if it is one of the newer HDMI 1.3 units you will need to set a few things, 1) immediate display must be turned off in the options, 2) output resolution must be set to through, with this the Onkyo/Integra units do a 100% true bypass of video, no BS
no settings needed on most devices, on the Toshiba just make sure all the extended black level crap is set to off, some DVD players like the Oppo 980 have a 4:2:2 output setting which is nice
sometimes funky HDMI handshakes will cause components to output RGB via HDMI vs 4:2:2, Toshiba players will sometimes do this, so without a scaler to tell you what you are viewing, sometimes it is hard to confirm you are getting 4:2:2
I should have added something else about the new card, HDMI switches and dropouts between switching are instantaneous and gone, when I switch inputs on my VP50pro with the new card I don't even get a picture dropout and the big image sync click from the 1352LC
-Gary
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Gary M. wrote: | | dropzone7 wrote: | | Gary M. wrote: | Drop, to be honest I have not compared the 8-bit RGB DVI in on the new card vs the old DVI only one, I have been waiting years for 4:2:2 10-bit capability, thus my excitement, this drastically improves all sources from SD DVD to satellite crap HD(which is loads better) to obviously BD and HD-DVD, amazing stuff !!!
the Panasonic BD30 outputs 10-bit 4:2:2 HDMI into the moome card just fine, a scaler is not the only source for 10-bit 4:2:2
all the Toshiba players output 4:2:2 HDMI as well, the Panasonic BD30 is the first BD player I have looked at that does, everything else was 4:4:4, Oppo 980H in addition to many high-end SD DVD players outputs 4:2:2 as well
high-end scaler systems have such a improvement because the new scalers do everything in 10-bit and can output that as such, but I am sorry for the confusion, you DO NOT have to have a scaler to source 10-bit 4:2:2 HDMI you just have to check around or ask someone like me to check a device for you to find out what a component is outputting via HDMI
-Gary |
Well, that's good to hear! I do have the BD30 and love it. Does it output this by default or is there a menu option that needs to be changed? I also have a Toshiba HD player so I guess that is covered as well. Does running these devices through my Onkyo HDMI switching receiver defeat or get in the way of the 4:2:2 10-bit output? Thanks again for your input on the card Gary!
|
Drop, yes running thru something can defeat 4:2:2 or worse do a conversion, even switchers can cause devices to default to other colorspaces or worse RGB, on the Onkyo if it is one of the newer HDMI 1.3 units you will need to set a few things, 1) immediate display must be turned off in the options, 2) output resolution must be set to through, with this the Onkyo/Integra units do a 100% true bypass of video, no BS
no settings needed on most devices, on the Toshiba just make sure all the extended black level crap is set to off, some DVD players like the Oppo 980 have a 4:2:2 output setting which is nice
sometimes funky HDMI handshakes will cause components to output RGB via HDMI vs 4:2:2, Toshiba players will sometimes do this, so without a scaler to tell you what you are viewing, sometimes it is hard to confirm you are getting 4:2:2
I should have added something else about the new card, HDMI switches and dropouts between switching are instantaneous and gone, when I switch inputs on my VP50pro with the new card I don't even get a picture dropout and the big image sync click from the 1352LC
-Gary |
I have an Onkyo 705 so I will have to check those options on mine. That's cool that the switching is so fast. I always cringe when I hear the image sync click!
_________________
"Coffee is for Closers."
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dbaisey
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 821
Location: Southern Cal LA / Seattle WA
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gary M.
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
thanks Doug, good link
the new Pioneer BD player has a xvYCC output mode, the VP50pro supports xvYCC and the new moome HDMI card (supposedly) supports xvYCC, sounds like a plan for some good testing
-Gary
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gary M.
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
been doing some more critical viewing and I just can't get over home much of a improvement this card really is, the best way to describe it is like someone took a hold of a knob on your system labeled bandwidth and cranked it out the roof, the natural crispness and smoothness of the image is amazing, the contrast ratio aspects of the image may be the biggest improvement of all, like I said before this takes a bit of nearly everything that the JVC RS2 had over on my 1352LC and adds it to my system, the wait and price was more than worth what you get here, I am now going to be giddy everytime I sit down to do reviews and watch films
Thank You Moome!, you are a true master sir
-Gary
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gary M.
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
it certainly is Kal, they are worth every red cent of the price
hopefully moome can put something together this nice for you guys without card slots, whatever display I use from now on must have this capability from a moome unit, not that I am looking to get rid of the 1352 anytime soon
what I really want to see is a hd-sdi modified BD player feeding the VP50pro with this card 
-Gary
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jarseneau
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 323
Location: WI
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
The article from Doug's link gives some key info when it comes to HDMI in our systems. My main take-aways:
- Set your source devices to output YCbCr
- Get a test disc that has a blacker-than-black pattern such as those found on DVE or the AVS HD 709 disc.
- YCbCr devices (such as Blu-Ray, HD-DVD, DVD or just about any HDMI source) are created in the Limited range, but since manufacturers handle this parameter differently, apply the setting that allows playback of a 'blacker-than-black' pattern. On the HD 709 disc, use the first pattern in the Basic Settings chapter. Below 15 is blacker-than-black. Bring up brightness to see the below black bars, then lower to see only the first bar above black.
- The YCbCr/RGB setting is for color space, the Limited/Extended setting is for Black and White range
- xvYCC is only significant if all devices in the chain support it.
The color rendition of the moome card is really quite impressive. The first thing that hit me when going back to the DVI card was how much better the HDMI card did to create a vividly lifelike image with more subtle gradients.
Now if I could only get my final version card. moome tells me it is hung up in customs. I must be on a watch list somewhere 
_________________
Jerry
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JuzWerkz
Joined: 14 Dec 2007
Posts: 35
Location: Battle Creek, MI USA
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Reading all of the responses on here has triggered a thought. Gary M., I see that you had a DVDO VP30 with the deinterlacing card that you recently sold when you upgraded to the VP50 Pro. I have basically the same unit, but without the SDI mods, that I just put into service last September. Now that I have the Moome card which is HDMI 1.3 and my PS3 is HDMI 1.3, the HDMI 1.1 of my VP30 is my limiting factor. (I'm willing to bet that my satellite receiver is still only HDMI 1.1 as well). Gary, is it worth it in your opinion to upgrade to the VP50 Pro under these circumstances? If I could get decent money for my VP30 such that it was only a few hundred dollars to get the VP50 Pro, I would be inclined to try it, but I don't know that I could justify a thousand dollar expense...
cj
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
energeezer
Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 67
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| JuzWerkz wrote: | Reading all of the responses on here has triggered a thought. Gary M., I see that you had a DVDO VP30 with the deinterlacing card that you recently sold when you upgraded to the VP50 Pro. I have basically the same unit, but without the SDI mods, that I just put into service last September. Now that I have the Moome card which is HDMI 1.3 and my PS3 is HDMI 1.3, the HDMI 1.1 of my VP30 is my limiting factor. (I'm willing to bet that my satellite receiver is still only HDMI 1.1 as well). Gary, is it worth it in your opinion to upgrade to the VP50 Pro under these circumstances? If I could get decent money for my VP30 such that it was only a few hundred dollars to get the VP50 Pro, I would be inclined to try it, but I don't know that I could justify a thousand dollar expense...
cj |
Gary
When you respond to Juz can you also please if possible explain in as simple terms as possible the diff between HDMI 1.1/1.2 and 1.3.
Is the differnce really significant in most applications?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gary M.
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
guys, unless I am mistaken or forgetting something, HDMI 1.3 has not one single thing to do with what you need for 4:2:2 10-bit playback with this setup, now if you wanted to experiment with deep color upconversion you would be screwed without it, but for that you need a player that does it (Pioneer 05/51 FD units are it) VP50pro (likewise that unit is it for deep color support) and the Moome HDMI card
CJ you would want to upgrade to the VP50pro for many reasons, but HDMI 1.3 is not one that I would say why you need the upgrade, it is not needed in most cases, what the VP50pro gains is much better 1080i deinterlacing, a multitude of additional PQ adjustments and more stuff along those lines
the VP50pro is a vastly superior image over the VP30, especially when dealing with HD signals, likewise SD signals are improved as well
HDMI 1.3 is only needed for bitstreaming the new audio formats, HDMI 1.2 is needed for bitstreaming SACD DSD signals
check here, you will see video has little to do with HDMI rev's:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Versions
moome probably included HDMI 1.3 chips for many reasons, one is that they are the latest, greatest and best out there at this time
having a true 100% complete chain of components with HDMI 1.3 is nice, everything seems to work perfect together in my usage, but it is not something to loose sleep over
-Gary
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cygnus23
Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Posts: 13
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
Perhaps this belongs in a different thread, but I figured I'd try here since at least half of my question concerns this card. I recently received my Moome XG card for my XG1100. I have yet to hook it up as I am just getting around to installing my equipment but still have no receiver, or source for BR material. I am concerned about not having any judder and in the past used a HTPC at 1440x960 w/ powerstrip to output 71.928Hz to the XG1100. With this card, I don't see any support for 1080i@72 Hz (or 71.928). Is this something I need to be concerned about with BR discs? Or are they true 24 fps and not 23.976? What are my options to not get any judder with BR and a my XG1100 through this Moome card? As I said I don't have a player yet. Thanks in advance.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gary M.
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
BR players output 23.976, it is just called 24p, you don't even need to worry about that though if you have a scaler which can take any input and make a 71.928 output for you
the Moome card will accept pretty much anything up to it's limit, any custom resolution or framerate
with a standalone player you cannot get 71.928, you only have 1080p/60, 1080p/24, 1080i and 720p from them, you need a scaler to get that 71.928 and use a standalone
-Gary
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cygnus23
Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Posts: 13
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
So I would need either a scaler or HTPC. What would be the advantage to watching HT cable movies through a scaler? Can the scaler do IVTC and convert to 71.928 even on HD cable stuff through the set top box? What would be the minimum scaler I would need? Thanks for the help!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gary M.
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
yes scaler is what you need to do all that and it will, at minimum you need a DVDO VP50 or Crystalio 3100, I would suggest the DVDO VP50pro
-Gary
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JuzWerkz
Joined: 14 Dec 2007
Posts: 35
Location: Battle Creek, MI USA
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Gary M. wrote: |
CJ you would want to upgrade to the VP50pro for many reasons, but HDMI 1.3 is not one that I would say why you need the upgrade, it is not needed in most cases, what the VP50pro gains is much better 1080i deinterlacing, a multitude of additional PQ adjustments and more stuff along those lines
the VP50pro is a vastly superior image over the VP30, especially when dealing with HD signals, likewise SD signals are improved as well |
Interesting that you say that, since the market comparison on DVDO's own website somewhat downplays this. I did figure out how to set the VP30 to 4:2:2 and there is definitely a visible improvement in just changing that setting. I also figured out the 72 Hz lock, and that setting tells the projector it's a new input, and throws my whole setup out of whack, so I'll have to do a new setup for that.
| Gary M. wrote: |
HDMI 1.3 is only needed for bitstreaming the new audio formats, HDMI 1.2 is needed for bitstreaming SACD DSD signals
|
That is another thing I am struggling with, but probably for a different thread since it has nothing to do with the Moome card. I have an Onkyo TX-SR700 audio receiver that I am feeding the SPDIF digital signal out directly from the VP30. I've read about the newer digital streams that HDMI is capable of carrying, but I'm not sure what is actually being broadcast by Dish. Since the SR700 is only 6.1 capable, I'm a little confused about how it is handling the signal it is receiving, and occasionally I hear digital artifacts on certain channels. I used to be right on top of all this stuff about 10 years ago, but it seems pretty hard to keep up these days...
cj
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gary M.
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 8:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| JuzWerkz wrote: |
Interesting that you say that, since the market comparison on DVDO's own website somewhat downplays this. I did figure out how to set the VP30 to 4:2:2 and there is definitely a visible improvement in just changing that setting. I also figured out the 72 Hz lock, and that setting tells the projector it's a new input, and throws my whole setup out of whack, so I'll have to do a new setup for that.
cj |
the VP30 series lacks true 1080i deinterlacing, it uses a simple bob technique that throws half the resolution out the window, the biggest reason to avoid the unit IMHO, but if you don't need 1080i source input then that is not a issue
the VP30 also lacks the edge and detail controls along with MNR, all three of these can be used to make a crappy image like satellite HD or SD DVD look fantastic
there are bunches more stuff that is better, but that is a good start
yes the VP30 does feature a 4:2:2 output
-Gary
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Forum powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
|
|
