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jbmeyer13
Joined: 03 Dec 2010
Posts: 1135
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: | | jbmeyer13 wrote: | | Also, anyone can see plain as day just how much more accurate the black level is on MP's shots. |
This is an illogical statement.
With any camera you (the photographer) set the exposure any way you like which defines the black level. So there's no such thing as a screenshot or picture that can accurately show black levels as that doesn't make any sense (by definition).
If the photographer doesn't set the exposure, then the camera is doing it and you have no idea what's going on. If blacks look correct, then the camera simply guessed correctly.
I'm not even including the fact that whatever display you're looking at the screenshots on also comes into play (brightness may not be set correctly or have a proper curve).
Comparing black level using screenshots taken with cameras is a pointless exercise. It's like trying to judge speaker quality by listening to them over the phone.
Kal |
I wasn't referring to black level from a calibration stand point. I simply meant that black looks more correct in MP's shot than mine. And as I said that has to do with exposure and other parameters.
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jbmeyer13
Joined: 03 Dec 2010
Posts: 1135
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: |
All screenshots show is how well someone understands how to use a camera. You cannot use them to judge colour, brightness, contrast, and ESPECIALLY NOT black level.
Kal |
That was my point and why I stated everything I did in my post regarding the differences.
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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Here is one of my best screenshots and when I compare it looks as if there is a unsharpness over my whole pic in my opinion.
Oops this was an iphone 4s shot 
The first is the Mike Parker shot of cause. The second is my 909 shot.
Last edited by redfox001 on Wed Dec 31, 2014 12:12 pm; edited 6 times in total
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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overclkr
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 4227
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| Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 6:17 am Post subject: |
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Ok time for some REAL SCREENSHOTS DAMNIT!!!!!!!
Bring it!
By the way, How IS GINO DOING?  WHATS UP BIG DOGS?
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overclkr
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 4227
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| Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 6:23 am Post subject: |
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As I look behind
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jbmeyer13
Joined: 03 Dec 2010
Posts: 1135
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| Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:10 am Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: | | jbmeyer13 wrote: | | I wasn't referring to black level from a calibration stand point. I simply meant that black looks more correct in MP's shot than mine. And as I said that has to do with exposure and other parameters. |
Ah! I missed that - sorry! So what I wrote only strengthens your argument then! 
Kal |
The other thing i forgot to mention is that my DSLR has an "exposure meter" which doesn't necessarily result in the optimal exposure. It seems to require a lot of trial and error to get the right balance. I'm not even coming close to capturing whats's on my screen:-(
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:13 am Post subject: |
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I have an older camera that I can set to manual. All these phone cameras do not have those options I think.
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thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 1311
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| redfox001 wrote: | | I have an older camera that I can set to manual. All these phone cameras do not have those options I think. |
If you have an iphon 4 you can download an HDR program and try shot a screenie like that. I always wanted to know myself how that would pan out.
No one is suggesting that any once set up is off but rather their image looks off in some way. Personally, I can't wait to buy a decent camera myself and too be just as scrutinised as well. And when all is done, I'm thinking I might get a cheap VP also too see if that might improve my image a bit. Lumagen Mini+ is probably what I should have.
(Those G90 images looks sick, btw! My personal favourites throughout this thread)
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 11:01 am Post subject: |
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It seems that png looks a little better than jpg. SOme of the unsharpness comes from jpg I think.
OMG this was an automatic iphone 4s shot oops: 
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Last edited by redfox001 on Wed Dec 31, 2014 11:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| thewolfman wrote: | | redfox001 wrote: | | I have an older camera that I can set to manual. All these phone cameras do not have those options I think. |
If you have an iphon 4 you can download an HDR program and try shot a screenie like that. I always wanted to know myself how that would pan out.
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Thanks good suggestion! I try that.
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stridsvognen
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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Those G90 shots are very very well taken, they looks just like what i see on screen with my G90 here. 
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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I have a $99.00 point and Shoot camera I got from Best Buy a few years ago. I mount the camera on the tripod, and then turn the dial to "A" zoom to cover the screen. Set the the ISO to 64. and from there set the timer for 2 seconds.
That all folks
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thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 1311
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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I'll get me a cheap camera too some day and give it a go.
As for the G90 on page 52, Back to the Future looks very good to me.
Last edited by thewolfman on Wed Dec 31, 2014 6:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| jbmeyer13 wrote: | | The other thing i forgot to mention is that my DSLR has an "exposure meter" which doesn't necessarily result in the optimal exposure. It seems to require a lot of trial and error to get the right balance. I'm not even coming close to capturing whats's on my screen:-( |
Yup. Very hard to do.
One recommendation: Shoot in RAW and then develop the photos after on the computer. You'll be able to choose any exposure you like with a slider bar to get what you want to see.
Kal
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| redfox001 wrote: | | I have an older camera that I can set to manual. All these phone cameras do not have those options I think. |
All better cameras have manual mode. That simply lets you manually choose things like ISO, shutter speed and f-stop (aperature).
You may be able to also set exposure manually, but until you take the shot and see how the exposure worked out, you just don't know what you're going to get.
@thewolfman: HDR (High Dynamic Range) has nothing to do with manual or these other settings. It's a completely different thing. It's a way of take 2-3 shots quickly one after the other and then combining them to get a wider range from dark to light since cameras cannot capture the full range like our eyes can. It's basically a way to get more stops out of a picture (what we'd call higher contrast ratio in HT talk). Some cameras have it built in. For others you can use things like Photoshop or similar. You take a bunch of photos at different exposures and combine.
Kal
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| redfox001 wrote: | | It seems that png looks a little better than jpg. SOme of the unsharpness comes from jpg I think. |
If you're seeing a difference between png and jpg it's not because of the format but because of the camera or the software the person used is doing it.
JPG is lossy and PNG is lossless, but use the highest quality JPG and you won't notice any difference except that the file size will be about 5 times smaller than PNG. If someone's taking a JPG directly out of their camera and hasn't changed any settings, the compression ratio is likely too high and causing some softening you can see.
Kal
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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jbmeyer13
Joined: 03 Dec 2010
Posts: 1135
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| Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: | | jbmeyer13 wrote: | | The other thing i forgot to mention is that my DSLR has an "exposure meter" which doesn't necessarily result in the optimal exposure. It seems to require a lot of trial and error to get the right balance. I'm not even coming close to capturing whats's on my screen:-( |
Yup. Very hard to do.
One recommendation: Shoot in RAW and then develop the photos after on the computer. You'll be able to choose any exposure you like with a slider bar to get what you want to see.
Kal |
What program do you recommend to develop the photos?
Here are two shots taken (in both cases they are underexposed by I think 2 EV) but the difference is I raised the brightness from 40 to 48 on the PJ. They are a little shaky since I didn't use a timer and just clicked the shutter. My ISO is 100 (the lowest my camera will go) , the shutter speed is 2 and the fstop id 5.6.
Brightness of 40
Brightness of 48
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ElTopo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1640
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| Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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Superb shots overclkr !!!!
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