CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

johey

I have an Electrohome ECP 3500 mounted with an original ceiling mount kit. I have the possibility to buy a Marquee 9500LC. I mainly use the projector for old video game consoles and various computers in 240p mode, so I might not be that demanding of a user. The problem with my projector is the tubes, and so far I have been unable to source a new set.

I understand the Marquee 9500LC is a better projector. I am just not able to tell if it is a worthy upgrade. The seller asks 600 EUR and it is a 700 km road trip in total. The seller claims the tubes "should be" good, around 8000 hours, but the projector is not currently in a place where it is easily tested.

What are the things to look out for? I know the problems with mine, but I don't have any experience with CRT projectors other than that. Ideally I'd like to give the seller a list of things to check before I decide to make the trip.

The one I can buy comes without a ceiling kit. It's a bigger projector, so I guess the ceiling kit I have for my 3500 is too small, or is there a chance it would fit? Are ceiling kits for this model easily sourced? I understand I can make one, handyman style, though I'd prefer not to.

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2024 5:42 pm Post subject:

It's miles better. No comparison.
Untested though, that's too expensive. At this point, it's a buyer's market. Should be no more than 100 Euros.
To check the unit, you'd have to pull the lenses and check the tube faces, and check for fungus in the tubes (covered on the main website). If they have fungus, it's a pain to clean them out, and the fungus may reoccur.
THe ceiling brackets are not the same as the ECP.
At this point, figure NOTHING is easy to get for any CRT projector. You can build a mount out of Unistrut though, I think that's shown on the main website as well.

Good luck!

johey · Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2024 6:00 pm Post subject:

Thanks for your valuable input!

I offered 350 EUR but it was declined. I guess it's a little harder to get freebes in Europe than in the US, but I agree the price is pretty steep for this one.

One more question regarding differences between high end, like the Marquee, and low end like mine: As I mentioned, I mainly use it for 240p resolutions. The scanlines are really good and similar to what I would expect from an old CRT TV, which is perfect for my application. What would they be like on the Marquee? Are the lines thinner and sharper, leading to more space between them? If so, I might actually prefer a low end projector over a high end.

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2024 9:16 pm Post subject:

You might have problems with the sharpness of 240p of the MArquee. THe scanning lines will be REALLY noticeable. So unless you put a scaler between the source and projector, you might want to stick with what you have.

Also, I really hate to do this, but in Norway there is a fellow by the name of Kurt. He came to the US about 10-15 years ago, and bought probably 20-30 brand new MArquee 9500 LC Ultras from the US government. No one knew what he was going to do with them, but we're talking literally tons of CRT projectors, all shipped to Norway.

Well, as per a post of his a year or two ago on Facebook, he never did anything with them. THey are all apparently still crated up at his place.

He and I had a big falling out on this forum about 12 years ago due to a tube smashed in transit that he bought from me, and so he's no longer a forum member here after he kept dragging out something for months.

He is however on the CRT projector group on Facebook. Who knows, he may be willing to sell one cheap, since he's doing nothing with them. I know he paid very little for them, but shipping would have been pricy.

(don't tell him I sent you, he may not sell to you. Very Happy

)

johey · Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2024 9:51 am Post subject:

Very nice to hear about the possible source of NOS Marquees in the neighbour land (although outside EU, still complicating things). I may actually try tracking him down and set for a roadtrip down the line, but at the moment that is not really feasible.

Though, out of a sudden, a freebe Barco Graphics 1208 showed up, short of an hour away. I might actually pick that one up. Apparently some "light even burn in" on green, otherwise good, whatever that means.

Free is free, but just thinking about it hurts my back. If my ECP was in great shape I wouldn't bother. Question is if this one is an upgrade or just a sidegrade with a new range of problems. Oh, those decisions.

By the way, I really like the full analog signal path between the video source and the screen. Just like a good ol' TV. Adding a digital scaler hurts the experience. I may be able to overcome that if I can find a scaler done right, just buffering a single line, drawing it twice while buffering the next. I can't deal with a full frame delay. In that case I could just use any modern LCD projector or whatnot. Maybe the OSSC would be able to do the trick, but I have yet to try it.

virusc · Joined: 11 Apr 2007 Posts: 358 Location: Massachusetts

You really should not use a 9500 with 240p. Curt come on now. If he runs that at normal brightness he is going to burn in scan lines. I would not even run a 9500 with 480p as the scan lines are too large. 720p would be the lowest I would run. For 240p I would only use a 7" CRT projector like you already have. I once had a barco 600 and tried 240p and the scan lines were huge even on that old projector with SD187 tubes.

johey · Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2024 10:07 am Post subject:

SD187 is pretty much the same as the 07MS I have, right? Those scanlines are perfect to my taste.

What about the Barco 1208 with 8" tubes? Will the scanlines be severely thinner than with my ECP?

johey · Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2024 10:47 am Post subject:

Are the physical dimensions of Graphics 1208 and 1208s the same? The 1208 install manual is hard to read.

virusc · Joined: 11 Apr 2007 Posts: 358 Location: Massachusetts

1208 and 1208s is exactly the same dimensions. Actually the same as a 1209/1209s as well except for the lenses. It is much larger than your 3500. Good projector and easy to work on and setup. Far more easy than the E9500. The only issue I see is if you crank up the contrast you can wear those MEC tubes quickly. I know the green has some wear hopefully it is 4:3 if you get it. Setup is real important on these (same for 9500 and any EM 8" or 9" projector)

**kal** · Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2024 12:21 pm Post subject:

johey · Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2024 1:22 pm Post subject:

Thanks for all suggestions!

Oh my, I've never imagined there are CRT projectors with other formats than 4:3! Is there a risk the 1208 is 16:9? If so, would it be feasible to put it closer to the screen to cut the sides, or is that a bad idea?

**kal** · Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2024 2:34 pm Post subject:

All CRT projector tubes are 4:3. He means hopefully the wear is large enough such that however you want to set it up you won't be using virgin phosphor which will appear brighter/have different colour balance. You have to (or want to) set up your image area within a phosphor surface that has seen even wear.

Read this: http://www.curtpalme.com/TubeCondition.shtm
And this: http://www.curtpalme.com/TubeRasterSetup.shtm
And possibly: http://www.curtpalme.com/CRTSetupGuide.shtm

Kal

johey · Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2024 2:48 pm Post subject:

Ah, me so stoopid.

Good tip! Need to ensure the burn in is 4:3.

How rare are these 1208 tubes? I mean, as Curt mention, I guess every single CRT projector part is rare now, but is it so rare that I should avoid getting this projector if the green is too shabby?

**kal** · Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2024 3:04 pm Post subject:

All CRT projector parts (and CRT projectors) are rare. You should assume whatever projector you get you'll never get parts for. That won't matter because whatever CRT projector you get will be (or should be) close to free.

Kal

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2024 6:25 pm Post subject:

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2024 6:28 pm Post subject:

garyfritz · Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 12088 Location: Fort Collins, CO

Less-sharp tubes would almost be an advantage in this case, wouldn't they? Smear those scan lines a bit. Kind of a poor-man's scaler. Smile

Otherwise watching a 9500LC at 240p is going to be like watching a direct-view CRT with a magnifying glass ...

johey · Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2024 8:07 pm Post subject:

Alright guys. I understand the ECP defines the bottom line of projectors and that swapping it out for almost anything would be an upgrade. But! Here's what. After listening to your feedback, I am not sure a better projector is for me. Here are a few picture of my wall a normal evening. Perhaps less is more in my case?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/3fMGEGgorGxvX1Em9

**kal** · Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2024 12:27 pm Post subject:

You have a point. If it's really just 240p resolution retro sources you plan on using to display on (what looks like) a painted wall then the benefits of a 9500 be somewhat lost if you (a) already have the brightness you need, (b) don't need or want anything sharper (you shouldn't - in fact it will almost be a detriment), and (c) the existing unit and tubes are still fine.

Keep in mind too that the signal quality of these analog retro sources is absolute garbage compared signal today. You're probably only feeding it composite (a combined signal) and not even S-video let alone component (Y/Pb/Pr) or RGBHV. HDMI is way out of the question.

If you watched any more recent sources in HD then you'd see the difference between an ECP and 9500 a lot more.

By all means if you can get the 9500 for close to free, go for it. It would be interesting to play with.

Kal

P.S. Nice Commodore PET! And a dual floppy drive to boot! I remember playing on those back in the late 70s / early 80s. My first computer video game was playing Space Invaders on a PET. Wink

johey · Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2024 7:20 pm Post subject:

Thanks! I would not say my ECP or tubes are in great condition. Colors start bleeding if cranking contrast or brightness over 50%. Blue tube is the worst. Sharpness is good enough for my needs though.

It is actually a projector screen mounted on the wall. Most of my video sources are RGBs. My main source is a MiSTer FPGA which can output RGB+HV or even HDMI with optional scandoubler, but I prefer to use it in native mode for the respective core, which most often is 240p.