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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2023 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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I thought the same thing myself. I've read a few people using compressed air and from what I understand it's not overly effective / tends to push the dust even further in to places you don't want it. I'll know what I'm dealing with once I dive into it. I've also read that some have said that the inner optical block (when they peak through cracks and adjustment holes [?]) is actually not that bad looking in terms of dust as compared to some of the more outer areas. I thought it was all the "same" area but I don't really have a great handle on it yet as I'm still researching. TBD!
No smokers here, and also nowhere near the kitchen or anywhere else you may have grease or similar in the air. I'm the original owner and the projector's been on the basement ceiling for the last 10 years.
Kal
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barclay66
Joined: 27 Jun 2011
Posts: 1304
Location: Germany
TV/Projector: Marquee 9500 Ultra
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| Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2023 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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That sounds promising for the compressed air approach. What I think is important, that the air to be used must be absolutely dry and clean. For this purpose I would recommend the one sold in spray cans.
So happy that my Sony has an optical block which is sealed hermetically. The only places where dust can settle are at the side where the lamp sits and a small gap between the prism and the lens block…
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12088
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2023 3:29 am Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: | | I'm thinking that something in both the bulbs and projector may have have changed as cheap meter aside, I can tell things aren't as bright anymore even without a meter at the same settings. |
I read that and thought "Gee Kal, you're kinda young for cataracts ..."  Guess your meter got 'em too !!
Good luck with your surgery ...
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12088
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2024 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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Nice detective work Kal! 11k hours, you have gotten your money's worth out of that beastie. (3 hours/day, EVERY day, for 10 years!?)
So once you swap in Lawguy's polarizer/combiner, what are you going to do with the RS56? Looks like the NZ7 has already pushed it out of the nest. 
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2024 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| garyfritz wrote: | | 11k hours, you have gotten your money's worth out of that beastie. (3 hours/day, EVERY day, for 10 years!?) |
Indeed! Some days it didn't get used, other days would see multiple people using it either together or separately, racking up the hours. Movies, games, etc.
| garyfritz wrote: | | So once you swap in Lawguy's polarizer/combiner, what are you going to do with the RS56? |
That's a very good question! I have it all re-assembled now with just the cover off, ready for the new polarizer/combiner which is easy to remove with a single screw. If it powers up and looks perfectly like new, do I keep using it and keep the NZ7 as a backup? That seems a bit crazy. Especially since the NZ7 is under warranty and should look better.
Kal
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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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nettwerkjohn
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 921
Location: Blenheim, Marlborough, New Zealand
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2024 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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so how does the new one compare to the old one?
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2024 12:42 am Post subject: |
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| nettwerkjohn wrote: | | so how does the new one compare to the old one? |
Sharper, brighter. I'm impressed. And I was happy/impressed with the old one. 11 years difference in models will do that I suppose! And this is comparing apples to apples by comparing SDR (BT.709). So I'm not even considering the brewer features like HDR with DTM / BT.2020 / laser light dimming for true FFTB / etc. (though no projector can truly resolve HDR - not enough light output).
Funny, a few weeks ago I was thinking I'd keep using the old for now, but after using the new and getting it set up right it would be hard to go back.
Kal
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nettwerkjohn
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 921
Location: Blenheim, Marlborough, New Zealand
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| Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2024 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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interesting.
so far the biggest visual improvement i've seen is when i finally went to a stewart studiotek 130 screen.
i gave my old x900 to a friend who loves its image. it still looks very nice.
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2024 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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I posted a longer response as to what's different (IMHO) here if you're curious:
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/burnt-polarizer-combiner-on-11-5k-hour-jvc-rs56-and-general-cleaning.3291310/post-63127661
| Quote: | I had the RS56 up for a while today taking these screenshots and generally playing with it. It's a very capable SDR/BT.709 projector with great native contrast ratio (90K:1) compared to the 40K:1 of the new NZ7. It's important to realize that room plays a big part of what's actually possible in terms of contrast ratio and how you have the bulb/laser power and iris set as well. 90K:1 isn't really "twice as good" as 40K:1 so perspective is important. The numbers for the most part are somewhat meaningless when not explained or taken with context.Throw distance too: Closer to screen is brighter but at the expense of contrast. Moving farther back gives you less light output but increases contrast. Getting farther back can also affect edge sharpness as you're now using less of the outer edges of the lens assembly which isn't as sharp as the middle. Things like chromatic aberration may come into play. No idea how "good" the lens assemblies on my RS56 vs NZ7 are however or how they compare. I'm at the same 17'9" throw for both.
The RS56 is "only" native 1080p but when you enable eshift you completely lose pixel structure even up close but with it off it's not visible from seating distance. The NZ7 is native 4K with shifting up to 8K.
The NZ7 is definitely brighter. About twice as bright which aligns with the 2200 lumens (NZ7) vs 1200 lumens (RS56) difference, though but I haven't calibrated the NZ7 yet but the RS56 is calibrated. I'm waiting for my Display 3 PRO meter to come back from Tom @ ChromaPure. I expect the NZ7 light output to drop slightly but on my screen size/gain I can hit 14-16 ft/L today with laser at 0/100 and the iris closed down to -9 (goes from 0 to -15) and expect to always be able to hit that for the next 20,000-40,000 hours by turning the laser power up slowly over time. With the RS56 by the JVC recommended 2900 hours/bulb (on high) I was often below 14 ftL. Closer to 10-12 in fact. Still looked fine, but you notice it as soon as you change the bulb of course and re-adjust bulb power and the iris to get back to 14-16 ftL. I probably should have had a smaller screen (didn't want that) or a slightly higher gain screen (it's about 1.1-1.2).
So overall the big differences for me is that the NZ7 is sharper, brighter, and will be able to hold 14-16 ftL for a loooong time.
The NZ7 can also do HDR (and BT.2020) in the limits of what any projector like this can actually output in nits (as no projector has enough light output to truly do HDR). So I'll call it 'pseudo HDR' because you're not getting as much light as you'd really need to approach what you can do with flat panel displays. The RS56 can't do HDR at all. To be honest, I'm not a massive fan or follower of HDR and the absolute messy state it's in, and coupled with projectors with limited light output (all projectors under ~$100K) it's even less compelling. I'm perfectly happy with SDR and BT.709 and 14-16 ft/L. I don't really want to run this NZ7 at 100% laser power either frankly.
The NZ7 is definitely a better choice for 3D given the light output. The RS56 I found too dim to effectively do 3D with my screen size/gain and projector placement. I don't care about 3D and seems nobody else does either as the format is dead. The sync module from the RS56 works on the NZ7 so I should probably fire up something 3D just to see. I haven't even tried it yet.
I've been playing around a lot with various NZ7 settings that are new to laser projectors like laser dimming. Unlike a bulb, a laser light source has immediate response so that the light output can be turned up and down instantaneously. So there are various modes of laser dimming available which attempt to give you deeper blacks when there's lots of black content like a starfield in space. Problem is that when you turn down the light source you end up dimming the entire image so both the stars and the inky black space get dimmer. So sure you get blacker space, but your stars now aren't as bright. JVC tries to intelligently do this in various ways but you'll still notice it. I don't like that.
With firmware 2.00 from about a year ago they introduced a new "mode 3" laser dimming which people say works better as it only dims if it notices the video content change in output (APL probably) is closer to how the eye works and the content has to be or be close to 100% black (?). I'm actually not entirely sure how it works, but people are calling this the "full fade to black" (FFTB) mode because it only seems to work on FFTP scenes but even it has issues I find distracting. For example: I had it turned on and was watching Goodfellas with the opening bright white credits that shoot across the screen from right to left. So it's "bright text" to shoots across followed by a few seconds of complete black, then it repeats. With laser dimming on this special FFTB mode 3 the black scenes would fade to full black after there was no content on the screen (it's truly 100% black as the laser's off or close to off) but then you'd get the laser powering up a second later for the next text flyby. Mode 3 doesn't dim content like the other modes but even though the NZ7 projector has great black levels the subtle up/down of black level I found distracting. I think it would be even more distracting at higher power levels/light output required to do "pseudo HDR". So I leave laser dimming completely off. Feels more like film to me, but that's just my opinion. People can try both. It certainly would work well in some scenes (think of the Castaway night scene). I may revisit it as the top right corner on my NZ is just very slightly brighter than others and I do sometimes notice it on FFTB however. I may not have if it wasn't for people on AVS complaining about it.  The RS56 had none of this. JVC is actually replacing the unit because of a couple of dust blobs in the blue channel. So we will see once the replacement comes in. I also turn off much of the other "enhancement" features. Same as I had with the RS56. No Clear Motion Drive or similar, or other features that add edge enhancement or ringing as some of them do.
To be honest if it wasn't for this burnt polarizer/combiner I wouldn't have bought the NZ7. I was very happy with the RS56. It was and still is very film-like. When you start to measure things and take stock, you definitely notice the differences however. But if you stop analyzing and just get lost in the content, the RS56 still "works" and looks great. That said, I do prefer the NZ7.
I have to say with the quality of projectors and display devices we have today along with the high resolution sources, things have definitely come a long way but I find the difference is getting less and less. 480p DVD (let alone laserdisc/VHS) on a big screen required you to suspend belief a bit that what you were watching was real and not just a fuzzy mess on a 8'+ wide screen at average seating distance. 1080p HD fixed that. 4K is even better but the jump from 1080p to 4K isn't nearly as impressive as the jump from 480p to 1080p.
Kal |
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nettwerkjohn
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 921
Location: Blenheim, Marlborough, New Zealand
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| Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2024 1:45 am Post subject: |
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thanks kal, very thorough.
sounds like the much trumped laser fftb comes at a cost. i see the same thing on our samsung TV, so turn it off.
funnily enough, i never noticed the dynamic iris working on the old sony ruby, but i sure could see it on the JVC so turned it off.
the brightness is compelling - i'm currently using single lamp on the projection design for +- 2700 lumens. i couldn't go back now. i find that i can happily live with the elevated black levels for the extra brightness on the bigger screen. went to single lamp mode (which is still amazing - double lamp mode is just more "amazing-er") just to lower the fan noise, as it was plenty loud with both lamps lit.
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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nettwerkjohn
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 921
Location: Blenheim, Marlborough, New Zealand
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| Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2024 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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i moved to a projection design f35.
got a super deal on a new one with a wide zoom lens - my local retailer had ordered for a job that never eventuated. paid literally pennies on the dollar.
far outclasses my old jvc in everything but fan noise and black level.
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2024 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: | | garyfritz wrote: | | So once you swap in Lawguy's polarizer/combiner, what are you going to do with the RS56? |
That's a very good question! I have it all re-assembled now with just the cover off, ready for the new polarizer/combiner which is easy to remove with a single screw. If it powers up and looks perfectly like new, do I keep using it and keep the NZ7 as a backup? That seems a bit crazy. Especially since the NZ7 is under warranty and should look better. |
So I sold the RS56 to a local HT guy I've known for years. He's really happy with the picture quality. Glad to see it go to a good home where someone knows what they're doing. Selling on local classifieds is always a crapshoot. Lots of people just looking for a deal or who have no idea what they're getting in to (i.e. "Does it play Netflix?", "Can I show PowerPoint on it?", etc). Sheesh.
Kal
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garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12088
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2024 3:33 am Post subject: |
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| nettwerkjohn wrote: | i moved to a projection design f35.
far outclasses my old jvc in everything but fan noise and black level. |
?? Wasn't the f35 discontinued 8 years ago ??
With 6500 lumens you could get a dark gray screen and then black level wouldn't be a problem...
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2024 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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Got my replacement JVC NZ7 on Friday and happy to report that it's perfect! No blobs in any of the channels or other issues. My old unit had two blobs in the blue channel as shown here: https://www.avsforum.com/threads/official-jvc-rs4100-nz9-rs3100-nz8-rs2100-nz7-rs1100-np5-owners-thread.3226551/post-63062801
Thinking about it more I don't think they're dust but some imperfections on the blue LCoS panel's glass substrate or something very near it (blue polarizer?). Not sure.
Also gone is the other oddity I noticed on the blue channel (that isn't visible at all on content) that I previously commented on:
| Quote: | | The blue channel also has some very subtle slightly lighter soft vertical lines that are approximately an inch thick and 6” apart that run from the top of screen to the bottom, but only near the center of the image. It’s extremely subtle and doesn’t show up in photos or content. Probably not related to the blobs but I thought I’d mention it in case it’s a sign of something for JVC. |
The very slightly brighter corners (mostly in the top right when ceiling mounted) that were visible on the old unit when showing a 100% black screen (with laser dimming off) are also gone. This new NZ7 is exactly like my previous RS56. I.e. A black 0 IRE SDR signal looks perfect from corner to corner, edge to edge.
I don't have my colorimeter back from being recalibrated yet but the new unit also seems to track greyscale nearly perfectly. The old unit had a subtle yellow push from what I could tell.
The replacement unit already had the latest firmware version 3 (Nov 15, 2023) installed while the old one purchased late December 2023 was at v2 and I upgraded it. EDIT: Makes sense as comparing the serial numbers the old unit was from July 2023 while the new unit is from Jan 2024.
Interesting to see how light output varies slightly from unit to unit due to the various components not measuring identically (completely normal). On the replacement I had to open the iris 2 clicks further from -9 to -7 to get the same ~15 ftL in SDR (at 0/100 laser power).
Last but not least, panel convergence is better. I haven't dove in deep yet but I have close to perfect convergence across the entire image area with zero pixel or fine adjustment. Nice!
A pic of both units as I temporarily test the new NZ7 (lower unit) before the old one comes down... Just in case the new one has issues:
https://www.avsforum.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.avsforum.com/attachments/img_4524-jpg.3575919/
Maybe I should keep both and stack them (4400 lumens!).
Kal
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