CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

cmjohnson · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s

Here's an odd one:

9500LC being rebuilt and retubed with LUG tubes.

Everything checks out OK except when you turn the unit off and then power it back on, the blue
tube shows a full bright raster with retrace lines visible.

Going into the color temperature adjust menu instantly restores the blue CRT's image to normal,
you don't even have to actually adjust any values.

It's consistent and reliable. It always powers up like this, and it always can be fixed by entering the color
temperature adjustment menu.

The memory battery on the CLM is good. It saves changes you make.

I'm thinking it IS the CLM, but I want to document this problem BEFORE I try a CLM swap.

One other thing: I think it's not due to any fault of the tube, but I've heard a muffled pop on power-up,
apparently INSIDE the blue tube, accompanied by a very brief, unfocused blue spot flashing up on the tube face,
NOT in the middle of the tube face and NOT apparently doing any harm to the phosphor. It's not a very bright spot
anyway.

I think that's an internal arc in the tube which is due to the CLM commanding full G2 bias on a cold tube, and not
any problem or fault with the tube.

This problem had me chasing my tail for a while. I've actually changed out the LVPS/HVPS wiring harness over it.

When the problem occurs, before entering the color temp adjust menu, the blue brightness can not be altered
with contrast or brightness setting changes.

I'm thinking there's an issue in the DAC to G2 drive system. (Blue channel.)

Tim in Phoenix · Joined: 21 Oct 2006 Posts: 4409 Location: Phoenix

Guys

It's the "snap" phenomenon, the CLM loads the G2 value incorrectly. Change CLM resistor R35 to 3K3. R35 is in the left rear corner of the board, under the edge of the stigwave board.

http://www.curtpalme.com/docs/ElectrohomeMarqueeTechnicalBulletin_TB97-04.pdf

cmjohnson · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s

Good to know that. Yes, swapping out the CLM solved the problem, and I'm quite happy to hear that this bad board can apparently be easily repaired.

I'll get the resistor tomorrow and take care of it.

I still have another bad CLM, and it won't turn on the high voltage so, no picture! It seems to be functional and responsive other than that.

Tim in Phoenix · Joined: 21 Oct 2006 Posts: 4409 Location: Phoenix

Guys

Possibly the DPB on your second board. Or try reseating all socketed chips.

cmjohnson · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s

That did it. Swapped the DPBs between the two CLMs that were giving trouble, now the one that wouldn't turn on the HV
is back in operation.

That's my newest one, too, with version 6.0 firmware.

Do you by chance have a guide on how to correctly set up the more complex color temp setting system in the later firmware
like this on? G2 and drive, I can handle, but setting up sub brightness (red and blue only) is not something I'm particularly familiar with, and I don't have the procedure.

I understand that it's for more accurate grey scale tracking. That doesn't mean I know the calibration procedure for it.

Tim in Phoenix · Joined: 21 Oct 2006 Posts: 4409 Location: Phoenix

Hey CM

I have never seen a setup procedure for sub-brite, I have no idea why it is an adjustment

cmjohnson · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s

It's in firmware rev 6.0, I can be sure of that. Not sure about any other version.

G2 is also a separate menu item.

So you go into service, go to set color temperature, and on the menu where you choose your preset, G2 is in that list.
Drive and sub bright are to be found only when you choose the preset you intend to adjust.

So, basically G2 becomes global to all color temp settings. The difference between the individual color temp settings is
handled with drive and (for red and blue only) sub bright adjustments.

I imagine it works well. Probably it can be used for improved greyscale tracking. But it is more complex to adjust, obviously.

Actually this is the CLM out of my own personal machine, which stopped working properly a few weeks back, so I've obviously
been able to adjust the color temp settings to my satisfaction before. But I've never been "formally trained" on how to set it.

gerni g. · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 35 Location: Erlangen, Germany

as far as i remember they started with subbrite settings on 5.0 software.
For me it was i big thing because this improved greyscale tracking adjustment.

CJ try adjusting as before first G2 then drive.
After that go to subbrite and adjust 20/30 value.
Then bacl and forth between drive and subbrite.

Best,

G.

cmjohnson · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s

The CLM exhibiting the "snap" issue already has the updated resistor value as described on the service note.

That also indicates that snap is usually an astig problem, not a G2 problem.

I have yet to retest the board after reseating all socketed chips, etc. but if the problem continues with that board
then I will presume it's an issue in the blue channel G2 drive system, probably an issue with the DAC or buffer.

Tim in Phoenix · Joined: 21 Oct 2006 Posts: 4409 Location: Phoenix

Hey CM

You could pull the hvps and access the circuit board in the back, and reseat all the socketed ICs on it. I have fixed a few weird problems that way.

cmjohnson · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s

It's only the CLM. Any other CLM in that chassis behaves fine, no issues with the PJ at all then.

I still want to know, though: What exactly is it that keeps happening where the hours meter on my projectors gets reset?

I'm not doing anything to intentionally make that happen. But in the process of tearing down the units, cleaning them, checking
for rat nests, spilled glycol, dust bunnies, etc. it seems that every one of them gets its hours meter reset sooner or later.

If I knew exactly what causes that, I'd avoid doing it.

Tim in Phoenix · Joined: 21 Oct 2006 Posts: 4409 Location: Phoenix

Hmmm

Trying different control boards could do that maybe, just guessing on that.

barclay66 · Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:15 am Post subject:

Hi,

I had the same effect when testing CLMs. They did have different firmware versions and sometimes would reset the stored settings to default values. Obviously, the EEPROM on the back plane (U1, sitting above the control board slot) is being used for storing some of the persistent values (like the serial number). Each major firmware version seems to use its own memory map for the values inside this EEPROM. As soon as the CLM is swapped, the start up routine checks the EEPROM data and if it doesn't find what it is expecting, it will overwrite the data with default values. When swapping an older version CLM with a newer one, the newer firmware will know where the storage location for the serial number is in the EEPROM and will keep it when writing back the default values. But: When swapping a higher version CLM with an older one, this might affect the serial number as the older firmware won't know where its store location is in the EEPROM and will set it to a default value as well...

Regards,
barclay66

cmjohnson · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s

That makes perfect sense. Thanks.

Now we know how to reset the hours meter on a Marquee! Serial number, too.

Not that that is necessarily a good thing. You lose the chassis hours count but when retubing
the machine, there is a certain sense to resetting the meter to reflect usage on the new tubes.

barclay66 · Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:07 pm Post subject:

Hi,

Maybe some day I will read out this EEPROM and determine where which information is stored (related to the firmware version). I have the necessary equipment and it's 2KB only. Then we would be able to set the values ourselves...

Regards,
barclay66

cmjohnson · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s

You can already do SOME of that. Via the factory level service menus, you can set the chassis serial number and model number, but
you can only choose the projector model type from a short list of selections.

There is no provision to edit the hours of use via any menu option I ever found, either. And believe me, I have explored every visible and non-visible option on every submenu that exists. Just because there are only five visible menu entries, doesn't mean that maybe the 0 or 9 button doesn't lead to a hidden menu.

barclay66 · Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:25 pm Post subject:

Hi,

From partial disassembly of the Marquee firmware, I've seen that there's even more. E.g. like an extensive Self-test menu. However, no hints on how to activate it...

Regards,
barclay66

cmjohnson · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s

I suspect it involves sending commands to it via the RS232 serial port.

It'd be nice to get those secrets.

When I rebuild a Marquee, I want to comprehensively test EVERYTHING in it, and that takes a while, particularly when you
consider that you have to really test it at not less than four different scan rates.

Tim in Phoenix · Joined: 21 Oct 2006 Posts: 4409 Location: Phoenix

Guys

I had notes on this years ago. Model no., serial no. on-screen message, color temps, start pulses, and maybe focus or stig, the stuff you don't want to lose in changing a CLM. It is tedious but you can set up a complete memory, do a full reset of that control board in another projector, then take the reset CLM back to the first projector and see what settings have held.

cmjohnson · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s

Marquee librarian software to the rescue?

Download the whole PJ, swap out the CLM, upload the file back to the new CLM. Does anyone know for sure what settings do NOT transfer over when you do that?

I haven't used ML in so long, it isn't even funny. Well before 2006, I can guarantee that.