Off Topic: Sony VPL-VW5000

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CIR Engineering

Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:48 pm Post subject: Off Topic: Sony VPL-VW5000

I got the chance to evaluate one for the second time yesterday. The previous unit was pre-production, but this unit was entirely production hardware. I have to say that I think this projector has true potential and I might actually buy one to compliment my CRT. Heck, if it is really fine, it might even replace my CRT.

This projector unclaibrated is already stunning though it can use some serious calibration help. It has Sony's usual interface that is virtually identical to the 1100ES and is not great. So the CMS is garbage, you can't completely eliminate edge enhancements, but it is 4k, very bright, but most importantly it is silky smooth with very deep blacks. This projector looks more like a CRT than any other digital I have ever see while still retaining the benefits of a digital projector. The picture is stunning.

I think with a Lumagen in the mix to do the LUT work and scaling you will have something truly amazing. I am excited to work with this projector and get real hands on experience with it soon. They come out next month and I already have several clients scheduled.

I can't post or say much else, but here are some equipment pics:

After I play with it for real, I will decide if I am going to spring for one in my theater. This is the most excited I have ever been about a digital projector.

craigr
_________________
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Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
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Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
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Phone: 865-405-6892

Spanky Ham

Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:59 pm Post subject:

They have been out for awhile now.

CIR Engineering

Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 12:05 am Post subject:

Spanky Ham wrote:

They have been out for awhile now.

I don't think they are installed in anyone's homes yet, are they?

I was told not.

craigr
_________________
JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying Wink

www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892

CIR Engineering

Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 12:07 am Post subject:

Spanky Ham wrote:

They have been out for awhile now.

I mean, they have been running around with demo units for months, but not for sale...

craigr
_________________
JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying Wink

www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892

Spanky Ham

Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 12:08 am Post subject:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ultra-hi-end-ht-gear-20-000/2168905-sony-vpl-vw5000es-4k-laser-28.html Art, ccool, joerod and others already have them. If you go back in the thread, then you will find Chris Stephens enthusiastic impressions. You better get on the hotline to Jim, because some have been using the Lumagen with it.

Spanky Ham

Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 12:09 am Post subject:

Oh Ken Whitcomb has already calibrated Arts and Joes.

CIR Engineering

Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 12:12 am Post subject:

Spanky Ham wrote:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ultra-hi-end-ht-gear-20-000/2168905-sony-vpl-vw5000es-4k-laser-28.html

Art, ccool, joerod and others already have them. If you go back in the thread, then you will find Chris Stephens enthusiastic impressions. You better get on the hotline to Jim, because some have been using the Lumagen with it. Wink

Will do tomorrow. Thanks Eric.

You really NEED LightSpace and a Lumagen to make these right, there is no way around it Wink

craigr
_________________
JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying Wink

www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892

kal
Forum Administrator

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 12:12 am Post subject:

MRSP: $60,000 Yikes! I do like to see things advance. It only means that eventually it'll be $6K for the some quality/technology. Kal _________________ Support our site by using our affiliate links. We thank you! My basement/HT/bar/brewery build 2.0

CIR Engineering

Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 12:14 am Post subject:

kal wrote:

MRSP: $60,000

Yikes!

I do like to see things advance. It only means that eventually it'll be $6K for the some quality/technology.

Kal

Yup. I'm thinking I can pick one up in 9-12 months for $15k... if I decide it's worthy Wink

www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892

kal
Forum Administrator

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 12:15 am Post subject:

Here it is (in the middle) surrounded by other Sony models: Kal _________________ Support our site by using our affiliate links. We thank you! My basement/HT/bar/brewery build 2.0

CIR Engineering

Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 12:17 am Post subject:

I'm glad you have some nice shots of it, cause the equipment room it was in did not lend well to photography while I was there. craigr _________________ JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer Klein K10-A Colorimeter Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software! Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com Phone: 865-405-6892

kal
Forum Administrator

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 12:17 am Post subject:

CIR Engineering wrote:

Yup. I'm thinking I can pick one up in 9-12 months for $15k... if I decide it's worthy Wink

Can't find any info on it, but I wonder what the bulbs go for and how many hours they're expected to last?

Kal
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Support our site by using our affiliate links. We thank you!
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CIR Engineering

Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 12:17 am Post subject:

And it is pretty large. Not Titan large, but close. craigr _________________ JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer Klein K10-A Colorimeter Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software! Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com Phone: 865-405-6892

Spanky Ham

Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 12:20 am Post subject:

I honestly don't remember the demo that well from last year. For some reason, I was thinking we saw the 1100. I would have to ask Darin, as I was kind of pissed off at the time. Cedia was trying to charge me $250 to go to the show.

CIR Engineering

Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 12:26 am Post subject:

Spanky Ham wrote:

I honestly don't remember the demo that well from last year. For some reason, I was thinking we saw the 1100. I would have to ask Darin, as I was kind of pissed off at the time. Cedia was trying to charge me $250 to go to the show.

Well, I just came off a fresh calibration job in Houston this past Saturday with Radiance PRO and I can say that the 1100ES is not even close to what the 5000 is. Totally different game. So if you saw the 1100ES it's really not any comparison.

The 5000 is something like I have not seen before. Some benefits are subtle, but it's in a new class as far as I'm concerned... that is unless something really turns me off after I have had a chance to thoroughly play with it.

craigr
_________________
JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying Wink

www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892

Spanky Ham

Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 12:34 am Post subject:

Chris_Stephens wrote:

YEA... For sure... HDR looks like Anti-HDR.

Oopsie... Wow...

OK so this would be a firmware issue ?

Its possible to force overwrite the metadata. But you gotta be serious and have the tools.

I was working on this projector today. i can confirm every disc i stuck into the Samsung - seemed off by a factor of 10. In full scale for the imager chip. The nitz of a pixel at full output is like 1/10 from that same pixel from the Samsung player in non UHD.

Nice projector. No kidding. Im SMPTE and have been watching Laser 4K for a while. 6P is my reference, but, this projector is by far the best device under $400,000. Im very impressed.

So. Says its DCI compliant. So. There must be a LOT more controls tucked away. Also. Does this play files ? Thats part of DCI. Does it have a hard drive ? Is this a fully DCI compliant proj ? Must be, has the logo. So do i hook a laptop to it ? Does Sony have deep config software like there are for DLP engines ?

All I wanted to do was turn off all sorts of consumer crap. I dont even want pin. I want pixel to pixel. Like say Sim2 Teatro. I do understand GLV and the pixel analogy is a bit misplaced. But. Its all about purity and this seems a LONG way from that.

So this is a nice proj. So far ive enjoyed my experience with it. Looks good. Ive not been able to really look at UHD yet as the damn metadata exchange is wrong. On sink or source.

Is it a 6P ? no. But the 6P will come down in price and be less ...unruly... Well and Maybe Dolby might let Christie sell them at some point. But for now, this projector rules the roost. NEC has some nice laser tech tho. Ive always liked NEC Cinema.

Time to brush up on SMPTE 2086. Can someone here capture the exchange between the devices ? A HDMI 2.0A protocol analyzer ? I cant justify the cost, but, maybe someone else has one ? We will know instantly whats going on and who to blame.

If you happen to have a analyzer and your in phx, come visit. Like today. Tom. We could sort this out in minutes.

BUT GUYS.. The SOny is DCI compliant. Its gotta be the crappy Samsung.

Most likely the proj DCI-ness is watching a metadata value, like it should, that no normal display watches. So the Samsung is sending something OR 0 and no display looked at that field seriously and so the source had weird data in that field and the sink, in this case a real cine projector, actually paid attention and this unset value - that should be set - landed us where we are. Thats my guess.

So.. Whats next ? It dont work. Big fail !.. hahahaha.. Ahhhhh did anyone expect anything less ?

So im a serious purist. Pixel value = mepg decoded value. NO TOUCHIE.. Also. NO scalingabout... Sony has always had "jungle chips" and in the modern world they still dont understand less is more.

Is there a classic 3D shutter in the proj ? If so can i physically remove it ? i dont like a LCD in my light path.

Is there a Service Manual ? Should be ? Its Sony. More like a book.

The std material, 1080, looks awesome. The proj is a bargain. It produces a really great laser 4k pic at a nice price. COlor rendering is good at times, but Sony is taking liberties in color remapping. That needs to go.

I have a sweet spot in my heart for GLV. It has serious advantages over hard edged DLP mirrors. MTF. Its all about MTF. DLP artificially sharpens with its sharp edges of its pixels. GLV is free of that.

Does anyone have a datasheet on the imnager chips in this unit ?

Im glad you guys are right on this. So I can confirm looks 1/10 nitz when playing HDR.

Is there a non-HDR 4K bluray ?

is there I file I can burn to a bluray disc that has test patterns ? I need test patterns ! In UHD 4K.

ALSO.. Can I play files with the proj ? Its DCI after all. So thats part of the spec. Thats a huge set of questions by itself. I seem to be missing DCI menus and features ? There is a slot open..

I can help with this issue. Let me know.

PM me. Im working on this in the morning.

Who is a Sony Cine div guy ? This is not a consumer product, with need a Cinema Div guy. I saw them at Cinemacon. They exist.

Chris_Stephens wrote:

Yea my post did ramble. I have GREAT respect for GLV and I think it has inherent advantages in MTF. Its a far more lifelike picture mathematically then a DLP. DLP is also PWM. Very different kind of light modulation. I might well be able to produce a better picture in a number of ways then a DLP 6P. I like 6P. But it has no analog nature. DLP is very digital. GLV is vary analog like.

Incredible box. Its HOW MUCH ? Wow,,, its a BARGAIN.. No kidding. You put a 6P on the same screen and get levels the same, you would be hard pressed to spend 6-8 times more money for the 6P which cant do normal HDR From HDMI. So.. This is, the best projector on earth that can do normal things like HDMI 2.0A.

Stunningly stable.

I dont sell these. I am just enjoying it.

Chris_Stephens wrote:

I love the look of DLP. For me its right now my reference. The 6P is it for me.

I am not baised. CRT has come and gone. I would know The last one of my projectors made by me went dark just months ago. So its official. And ive got 2 as night stands. Electrohome case. For me DLP PWM bring a accuracy and bit depth resoution, its crisp frames. Literally - snap - as the mirrors flip. LCD is a slower transistion. Plasma is quick .

That said.. I am crazy.. Make no mistake.. Teranex / Snell & Wilcox / Tektronics >> PONG Laserdic done insanely

Last edited by Spanky Ham on Thu Jun 09, 2016 12:38 am; edited 4 times in total

thewolfman

Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 1311
Location: Sweden

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 12:34 am Post subject:

Deleted. Last edited by thewolfman on Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:33 am; edited 1 time in total

Spanky Ham

Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 12:46 am Post subject:

Chris_Stephens wrote:

Wow... My first time really doing calibration and playing around... Very good projector. Every control worked as it should. "Reference" is a good starting point. I have a very specific way of calibrating any digital device that ALWAYS makes sure to preserve the full bit depth thru to the screen. Im not going to talk about this in this thread. I have a different approach. I dont like throwing out bits.

Impressive. With all sorts of **** turned off, it can look great.

We were hanging on to the Sim 2 Teatro just in case for pure 2K. But. Im going to recommend we move the Sim 2. As good as it is. So for me, this topped the best DLP, at least for me, to date. So I can say pretty clearly this proj now stands as the top projector at anywhere near its price.

i dont see any downsides. Well, mino things addressable in firmware.

A Ayre DX5 BluRay, Datasat - all Atmos and HDMI 2, Sony VPL-VW5000ES All Wireworld Platinum Starlight is the best way to reproduce 2K now. Thats the top signal chain.

NOW... HDR...

Its just broke. hahahah.. Looks like ****. Im not even bothering to play with calibration. What ? Calibrate a 20 CR ? It will take more brain power then me to sort this out. To me it looks just like something does not know its actually HDR. Like one of the devices is in HDR and the other isnt. Maybe some part of the handshake failed. Maybe some metadata rubics cube - where both players have to end up with the same solution.

Im sure that will get sorted... Its a huge glaring whoopsie.

So.. Anyone.. Is there a way i can burn or play a HDR 100% white field ? I need to compare it to its 2K mode. Huge difference. I turned up contrast, brighness, set gamma at 1.8 and still could not get close to a normal white in 2K. The proj seems to switch modes and in doing so, something happens. Every setting makes no difference. FULL laser. No control.

Its a Oops of some kind.

But...

WHO CARES

there is no content. Its INCREDIBLE on 2K. Even DirecTV. Who needs 4K. This thing will knock you flat when calibrated right. I also disagree about softening from Sony. This is crisp and DLP like. i did notice their scaling reduces resolution ( common trick ) and so make sure to turn all maner of Sony off. You gain resoultion of objects in motion. Film judder is REAL, if you dont see the judder, then, your losing resolution of objects in motion.

Im pretty impressed with the scaling. Ive seen issues, but only i would see them.

This really is the top dog in video projection. For std HD content its ready to go, no issues to report at all.

Leave the IR rcvrs active even if you plug in a external IR input. You can turn off the internal ones via menu now if you really dont want them.

Im happy. Good proj. I dont say that about any projector. Also I have no reason to glow over this projector other then its coolness. I dont make any money off this proj, im not a dealer, I dont even know anyone at Sony.

So im happy. Back to playing with HDR... I figure im down to kicking it.. That sall I have left. Short of renting a protocol analyzer.

I KNOW there are top engineering guys reading this. Come on, you have one in the lab, come visit me. We can plug it in and see what its REALLY doing.

Chris_Stephens wrote:

This proj is just stupid good. I went chapter after chapter in Avatar 2K just jaw dropped. Oh THATS what that looks like.... OK... I was wrong all this time... Whew...

My black test is "viper wolves" chapter. The end of that one where the hyper black wolves go into slow motion and the ones bares his teeth. This is a black test for many reasons. This exceeded anything I had thought could be done in that scene. This projector can do jaw dropping blacks. That scene will make anyone a believer on the first pass. WITH IT PROPERLY SETUP. Ayre > Datasat > Proj. Wireworld hooked up. Screenresearch 4K. Fun room.

The Disney Star Wars is jaw dropping. Stunning flesh tone rendering. You are immd struck with the thought "Pantone accuracy".

Its subtle rendering of color, whew.

Incredible scaler. The scene in avatar when he lands that really really big bird thing, the orange one, thats amazing. Into the scene a bit watch the background. EVERYONE is moving around and the scaler must be using 1000% CPU and wow, it does a incredible job. Him in foreground talking - with all the motion in the background. Stunningly good scaling.

Color remapping is good.

Make sure to use Gamma. It comes set to off. ?!.

My ONLY complaint is how long it takes to lock picture. Jeeezeeeeee... Its still on right ???

Do what i did. use those 2 jacks on the back of those devices. One to the proj one to your audio gear. Better sound, less metadata headache.

Well.. I have no way to proceed on this Highly Dimmed Recording issue tho.

i ste the Samsung up and claibrated using a 2K disc in it. Looks horrendous in HDR. Completely unacceptable. Its some bug.

Spanky Ham

Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 12:49 am Post subject:

Chris_Stephens wrote:

So ive been thinking about this.... This is a good pic... I will have to look more.. Maybe its the LACK of DLP. DLP is very unnatural. PWM registering brighter with wider pulses. Thats not anything like natural. Its PWM of your retina. It has a list of well understood issues. For example - the Iris does not properly detect light level and so stays open during bright scenes. This makes DLP fatiguing. While it works. Maybe modulating the cones and rods was not the best way.

Cant say im a fan of lasers either. Another long list of issues. My biggest is the razor thin spectra. This is highly unnatural. Im not sure I like the science on this subject.

BUT clearly switching technology is a really nice change for me. I really was sucked into the picture. Remember - i do this stuff all the time. Same cali clips, I am all used to all this super high end stuff. I clearly remember going "w o w" and just standing there transfixed. Chapter after chapter.. Just stunning..

Its far more film like when watching film based sources then any projector ive seen - including the Christie Vision rig. Thats saying a lot. This is the imager tech I think.

This is a fairly stunning advancement.

I want a bigger one. I want 6 of these panels in a Dolby Vision V arrangement. OOoOoOoOo...

Ive done this forever. Ive spent time with Christie's Dolby Vision. This proj has qualities ive never experienced.

For you guys that know me from long ago, you guys know, I dont say things like this. This is really odd for me. This projector is amazing.

YEA... It completely inspires me to get a service manual and, gasp, jump in. Im 10000% sure i can make it better. A lot better. Its a good starting point. So guys ? Lets start a thread on mods, hehehe.. I looked at the panel tech. Easy to improve electrical performance. Its a very analog imager. So you guys that are modders - this is the next one. Right here.

So... I gotta tell you guys something i did not think about. Laser thru a port glass. Unlike normal, laser is in focus. Normally a port glass is not in the pic because its not in the focal point. But with laser, all that changes. Its fairly freaky to hold up a book and move from projector to screen and the image stays in focus on the book. That caused my brain to hurt. but i got it. That one took me by surprize. Thank goodness i use Water White port glass. But still. A port glass is now a hyper serious optical component. Im going to have to read up on lasers and optics. Im sure you guys knew all that, im just new to the party.

Chris_Stephens wrote:

I took a Marquee that Vidikron sold and stuffed a hundred parts into it. I did threads here long ago about design of the Marquee and what i did in mods. i still have the site up.

I took product of the year and best projector in the insanity catagory price wise.

Jon Valin review

SHGT Tom Norton Review

The historical site Proj site

I was modding before modding was cool. hahahahaha... All about Wet Tant. I had extensive threads on all that here back in the day.

Oh no he didn't!

Spanky Ham

Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 12:57 am Post subject:

Chris_Stephens wrote:

The proj is just not normal... Taking pics with my cheap blackberry phone from long ago just right off the screen shows this thing is crazy nutz..

The camera cant capture whats really there of course. Its scary good.

Amazing you can see it even thru cheap camera pics.

The dynamic range, the color rendering, the detail and accuracy.. If you know what your doing this thing just leaves you jaw dropped and just sorta stunned. I dont stun easy. I do have a few things I see that i cant turn off. Processing I cant defeat so far tho.

Its so good it pops out of the screen in almost 3D all the time. This is of course its gamma tracking and more natural range of brightness - so our eyes dont see it as flat and lifeless - but 3D. Ive done 3D with CRT back in the day, like natural 3D - no glasses required. With the right gamma and range and a brightness high enough your eye/brain start to perceive it as real life dynamic range. Natural 3D shadow reproduction begins to occur in dynamic range and it looks 3D. Depth of focus works properly in your brain again like it used to on film.

With Deadpool at times its s smidgen brighter, maybe, but it all is lacking dynamic range. Simply measure it. Its missing in action. Something is broke.

I DONT CARE.. 2K is SOOOO good and so completely undiscovered its great to go back thru EVERYTHING and see EVERYTHING new again.

DOnt look at the proj as a 4K device, its a 2K ultimate video rendering machine. You wont care about 4K. Well, non-HDR 4K is great.

The issue with 4K is making 2K look good. Sony nailed it.

The issues I see are completely forgivable. I would like to turn them off tho.

First up. Cant avoid this one. Its technology takes time to turn on/off pixels. Its slower then DLP I believe and obviously slower then Plasma. This means things in motion will have less resoultion. Nature of the beast. This seems incredibly well tuned in the 5000 and it almost adds to its silky smooth film like nature. I dont have issue with this, but, im aware its there.

There is some form of left over image processing going on with everything turned off. Motion is too smooth. i think only I would notice, however, the effect is actually appealing. And im picky. I have violent allergic reactions to any form of frame interpolation. Any mucking about temporally outside each frame, by say adding new frames, is just right out with me. Instant full disqualification. i hate that more then 3D. MAYBE its my hyper sensitivity to this, but, I swear even after I turned all that off i can still see some now and then.

I want the incoming pixel value to land at that exact pixel on the screen with that same value. i want every frame to checksum off the screen with the bitstream value. NO MUCKING ABOUT. There is still some monkey buis going on and so I can make a still better pic.

HOWEVER... Its SOO good now. I dont care what its doing. If its intentionally mucking about making it "look better",,, while im opposed, damn if I dont like it anyway.

So.. This projector is the closest ive ever seen to match my reference. 70mm displayed on a 96" wide pic with the right lens and lamp + killer prints. Nothing we have in science will equal that so far. We will need spectral reproduction - IMHO.

This thing is just stupid good. If you can afford it, buy it. Its a bargain. You will need calibration. Although im sure there are guides here, or will be, on the best way to set this up. Just make SURE to not judge it out of the box. It gets WAY better.

Again one freaky thing to note. Unlike a normal projector - laser projectors are effected by the port glass because its in focus the whole way to the screen. This is freaky. Its in focus if you hold paper right in front of it 6" or 20 feet. Its all in focus. So be aware of your port glass if you have one. Replace it with a Water White glass based port glass. Or maybe something even better ? i think its the best tho. Its more like a crystal.

So a week after install or so, just could not be happier. The client is very happy. It would be better if 4K worked. The brightest bits of Deadpool are still WAY lower then player onscreen chp and time GUI overlaid on top of the HDR content. Its laughable its so off.

The 2K side of things produces eye candy and just jaw dropping color rendering. While not depicted in the pic above, flesh tones on movies like the recent Disney Star Wars are jaw dropping in the complexity of real life flesh tones. There seem to be zillions of shades in each face. So lifelike, its spellbinding. Sorta Pantone for video. This effect works on everything. DirecTV, AppleTV, Sony 4K server. I plugged in a laptop,,,, O M G.. This thing hooked to a serious workstation doing real Pantone calibration with Pantone pics would be breathtaking.. This device has many uses. I want to play files. 4K files. Hmmm,,, I need a card ? haha...

Its really something. Again, I have NO reason to gloat over this proj other then just technical shock. I dont sell them, dont make money in any way from it. Im just very happy to have a device redefine the science and set new bars.

Chris_Stephens wrote:

Sorry for delay in response.

Oh, I have a list. I could go on for months with a soldering gun. A list is floating around in my head.

Ive been playing with HDMI and networking chips. Streaming from a server is all the rage. Ive got a rubidium clock feeding a OPPO HDMI port. Rememebr that video I posted some pages back about using a Tektronix + Snell & Wilcox + Teranex to play a orginal Pong. I am crazy like that.

I would start by looking at the imager drivers. WHats driving those panels. How does that work ? Sony might have a service manual ? Most likely not. So its a bunch of work to work it all out reverse engineering. I would start at the panel. I would look at the digital path thru the projector. Whats in line. What clock chips are around, what do they do ? The obvious target are the power rails.

While the proj is, incredibly good, a mfgr can never use the best parts. Its rapidly causes costs to skyrocket. For example, lets replace all the resistors with metal foil for low noise. WHOOPS our cost went up 18 times. You want to use 10X larger tants all over ? Ooooo triples cost with those size caps. The ART is finding the balance - incredible performance at a cost that a reasonable numebr of people will actually pay. There are however people out there willing to pay more for more performance. So of COURSE the proj can be improved. Most likely pretty dramatically with enough money in parts. Metal foil, wet tant, good polys, these things cost money. But. they improve things.

I know what to do. Pretty easy. The panels are actually very analog. These pixels are not PWM DLP. This is a analog beastie. So really im right at home.

Man if it looks this good now.. Adn i KNOW i can lower noise floors, improve linearities, reduce any drift by magnitudes of any signal with stupid accurate low noise Vref chips and real mans oscillators. Not to mention parts that dont drift. Wow.. so what CAN it look like ? OOoOOooOoo...

What i would do could never be done in production simply because of part cost insanity. Sony could do WAY better then me. Those engineers are obviously the best in the world, but, they are restrained to make a proj that can actually sell at some normal price. They sure did that.

Can it be modded ? of course it can. Can it be seriously improved ? Yep.

I dont want to give away too much. Who knows. Maybe I might jump into this proj and like it as much as I did the Marquee. Its clearly the coolest thing ive seen since the Marquee. This is rendering movies effortlessly. So relaxing to sit in front of. I think the natural way it works VS DLP - PWM of your retina. The iris correctly tracks brightness changes - unlike DLP. So I think im coming around to believe this technology is superior to DLP for actual use with humans. I think there are still unanswered physiological questions with PWM and how this interacts with the eye/brain. Sony's tech is just, natural.

I should mention the screen and setup. The pic of Avatar I posted in this thread shows the screen. Its 144" wide. Variable aspect ( vertical ) 16:9 native custom made Screen Research 4K. IE more then normal custom. 1 of a kind in fact. Water White port glass. All the centers, plumb and square with screen and room are all 1/8 or less with a 144". The video path is Oppo BluRay for HD, Samsung for 4K, SOny 4K server, AppleTV and DirecTV. Even a feed from a Crestron 4K DM switch. 1/2M WireWorld Starlight Platinum HDMI's to the Datasat and a 3M WW Platinum to the proj. The proj is plugged into a insanity power system 220V. There is a ton of other insanity gear in the room, and the engineering of the room is off the deep end engineering and science wise, but, the client prefers to stay low profile with the room. I get that. So I dont want to be specific with gear. The highest quality source in the room is Vinyl. But there is also a tweaked Synology and a n i c e renderer. I want to play files on the proj..

So thats the system. And yes, the proj can be made better. Of course it can. Zero doubt.

Cineramax. Your posts are just awesome. Thanks for being on the forum for such a long time with your seriously experienced skills.

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