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thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 1311
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| barclay66 wrote: | Hi,
As I'm located in Europe and as I happen to have a test machine available, I would be able to test the boards and determine their status...
Regards,
barclay66 |
Sure, that would be sweet if you would like to do that! I appreciate that, so yes, let's do that instead as I like to hear your take on it.
So please send me your adress to thewolfman@hotmail.se and I'll have out next week.
Thanks!
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:15 am Post subject: |
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Let me first walk you through a few things. If anything I suspect the VIM, but would rather go through a few things first using your setup
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thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 1311
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | Let me first walk you through a few things. If anything I suspect the VIM, but would rather go through a few things first using your setup |
Yes, we can do that too before that.
I don't get what I'm suppose to do with the internal frequencies, btw.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| thewolfman wrote: |
I don't get what I'm suppose to do with the internal frequencies, btw. |
But they may not be important to this right now anyway.
I would like to know what happens if you use your previous 03 modified VIM, with one of the neww neck boards on the green CRT, one of the older neck boards on the red CRT.
Flip through the internal test patterns (keep pressing #) -- How does the green and red differ on the screen?
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thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 1311
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | thewolfman wrote: |
I don't get what I'm suppose to do with the internal frequencies, btw. |
But they may not be important to this right now anyway.
I would like to know what happens if you use your previous 03 modified VIM, with one of the neww neck boards on the green CRT, one of the older neck boards on the red CRT.
Flip through the internal test patterns (keep pressing #) -- How does the green and red differ on the screen? |
Will try tonight and see.
The older VNB on red, you mean an old MP VNB or a stock one? At present time I can only use 2 old modded + one stock as the third went bust on me. A pin feel loose on it but kept it. I don't have the skills to solder that so that one is useless to me.
I'll take photos too.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| thewolfman wrote: |
The older VNB on red, you mean an old MP VNB or a stock one? At present time I can only use 2 old modded + one stock as the third went bust on me. A pin feel loose on it but kept it. I don't have the skills to solder that so that one is useless to me.
I'll take photos too. |
Yes an older modified neck board. You can put anything on blue. I'm only concerned with red and green for right now.
And that defective modified neck board is still under warranty so send it back to me so I can can fix it for you.
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thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 1311
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | thewolfman wrote: |
The older VNB on red, you mean an old MP VNB or a stock one? At present time I can only use 2 old modded + one stock as the third went bust on me. A pin feel loose on it but kept it. I don't have the skills to solder that so that one is useless to me.
I'll take photos too. |
Yes an older modified neck board. You can put anything on blue. I'm only concerned with red and green for right now.
And that defective modified neck board is still under warranty so send it back to me so I can can fix it for you. |
Thanks, I appreciate the gesture. I will take you up on that.
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thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 1311
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | thewolfman wrote: |
I don't get what I'm suppose to do with the internal frequencies, btw. |
But they may not be important to this right now anyway.
I would like to know what happens if you use your previous 03 modified VIM, with one of the neww neck boards on the green CRT, one of the older neck boards on the red CRT.
Flip through the internal test patterns (keep pressing #) -- How does the green and red differ on the screen? |
I made two attempts, first time I had the white G2(?) cable not fully on so It went into protection mode. But I reinserted everything and now actually run a new VNB with my old modded VIM 03 + old modded VNB on red + stock on blue. It works.
The green has the same G2 levels as yesterday, but since it is a little brighter inside I adjusted them a few pegs up on the grey step pattern. No more over-bright alingment with grid patterns, it looks like it should.
So I want to ad the other 2 again.. feels like I should at this point. Let's assume they to all of sudden work, then what?
I'm running 1080p@60Hz btw, so I can have the monitor hooked up too. But tested 800p now and that works as well. Strange.
Anyway, I'm doing the rest too.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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Are you indicating that you have the new modified neck board on the green, and all three are fine or equal?
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thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 1311
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | Are you indicating that you have the new modified neck board on the green, and all three are fine or equal? |
There equal, don't have to change anything. And I now also have green+red with new VNB + stock. I watching it now and flipped thru the # and grey step pattern are fine. So I will install also the last one on blue now.. hold on 5 minutes and we can try something else after.
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thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 1311
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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Blue + green + red 250 MHz VNB installed. It works now. So, I will install the new VIM 02 again then.. thumbs up!
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thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 1311
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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Fully modded it went dim on me again but need some time on this.. will readjust G2 and see. Get back to you in an hour maybe.. or sooner.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, so we can rule out the neck boards. So at this point, you can send the new VIM to Barclay to check out. I bet Q2 shorted
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thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 1311
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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Red G2 66 went up to 73. Green G2 74 went up to 83. Blue G2 63 went up to 70. Blue has hold stable unlike before.
How ever.. it is just like before. The image is extremly dim, but the grid pattern are bright as hell. Same as before. So I think that this VIM 02 needs some more work. But the VNB seems like they are fine after all. That's good!
Remember: I have brightness + contrast still at 50 and yet it is overly bright on grid pattern and yet dim image.
And finally.. the left borders on all of these frames are gone - * + UTIL + PICTURE + GEOMETRY + CONVERGENCE + HELP.
The alignment pattern are always over-bright introducing the ghost patterns if I ramp up contrast + brightness up from 50.
The only thing that looks normal is the step pattern, that looks like normal brightness, but the image is very dim. Plus the fact that ramping up contrast to 70 does almost nothing, but brightness a little more. Overall unwatchable.
Oh ok, just the VIM to Germany. Good I can keep the VNB and get to learn about them.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| thewolfman wrote: | Red G2 66 went up to 73. Green G2 74 went up to 83. Blue G2 63 went up to 70. Blue has hold stable unlike before.
How ever.. it is just like before. The image is extremly dim, but the grid pattern are bright as hell. Same as before. So I think that this VIM 02 needs some more work. But the VNB seems like they are fine after all. That's good! |
If the external is DIM, that means Q2 could be shorted on the VIM.
| Quote: | | And finally.. the left borders on all of these frames are gone - * + UTIL + PICTURE + GEOMETRY + CONVERGENCE + HELP |
That left edge being missing is normal on that VIM. It should be like that only on the external source is being used.
| Quote: | | Oh ok, just the VIM to Germany. Good I can keep the VNB and get to learn about them. |
Yes
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barclay66
Joined: 27 Jun 2011
Posts: 1304
Location: Germany
TV/Projector: Marquee 9500 Ultra
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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Ok,
So I will test the VIM as soon as it arrives. First, I will test with a Moome input card and the sources I have (HDTV, Blu Ray, Apple TV and Computer). In addition, I can feed it standardized analog and digital test patterns from my Sencore VP401. The result can be tested on screen and using a 250MHz scope. I do have extender cards that allow measurements outside the board slot...
@Mike: I'll check Q2. Tell me if You need anything else in particular.
Regards,
barclay66
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| barclay66 wrote: | Ok,
So I will test the VIM as soon as it arrives. First, I will test with a Moome input card and the sources I have (HDTV, Blu Ray, Apple TV and Computer). In addition, I can feed it standardized analog and digital test patterns from my Sencore VP401. The result can be tested on screen and using a 250MHz scope. I do have extender cards that allow measurements outside the board slot...
@Mike: I'll check Q2. Tell me if You need anything else in particular.
Regards,
barclay66 |
Thank you man, this is very appreciated.
That VIM has my later version mini board, that is a high bandwidth switch unlike the other that was a buffer and switch combined. Also, the Slot 2 goes directly into the switch (mini board) and the front end and pedestal stages on the VIM are not being used in its video chain.
That would make the entire video chain on that VIM the AD835 and switch (internal patterns/slot 2).
Please also give me your opinion of it..
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thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 1311
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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I was out walking the dogs.
Well, thanks to the both of you and good luck on your testing, Jorge! I'll box it up and get it out the door on Monday and skip any blu-ray testing even though I ordered one. It's a PS4 so I'm keeping it and will game with it mostly. You both seem confident what the problem is no need for my testing I think.
Thanks again!
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cmjohnson
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 5180
Location: Buried under G90s
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 12:09 am Post subject: |
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FYI, because you were interested, the purpose of the internal test patterns is so that you can pre-adjust many picture parameters (convergence, focus, geometry, astig, etc) at multiple scan rates, so that the ASI system can do a pretty good job of adjusting these parameters to a new signal type it hasn't seen before, such as a new resolution or new scan rate.
You may not be aware of it, but there are four frequency ranges for horizontal scan, and each frequency range has many of its own unique settings. Those six internal test frequencies allow a technician to set them all up properly without having to find sources
that output signals with scan rates in all four bands.
If you were to take the time to start at the lowest internal scan rate and adjust everything, convergence, focus, geometry, astig, etc. and then do it again for all six internal scan rate settings, and with ASI turned on, then the projector would be expected to automatically figure out appropriate values for all those settings if you were to plug a new source into the projector, one having different scan and refresh rates than it has ever seen before.
Most home theatre users these days probably don't need anything but settings for 1080p-60 and 1080p-72, so you may not see any need to adjust everything for every scan rate.
But if you did take the time to do this, the projector would never miss no matter what you hook up to it. Convergence, geometry, focus, etc. would be spot on or pretty darned close, with most any random signal you can feed it.
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thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 1311
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 1:06 am Post subject: |
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That sounds cool, I'd like to try that! Remove 800p and do those and then just feed it 800 again. See what happens.
I got to say, I feel really good about finally having all the tools to make my dream projector I always wanted out of a CRT. I thought for a while there that I'd lost out on my main boards that I needed to bring it all home with making it super crisp - if I can. What some don't understand, is that even a few procetages of better image is worth the dollars poored into this. To me it is. And if I ought to sell it would hold some serious value I think. At least for another entusiast like me. For anybody else I guess it's still trash. But it is not for sale just the old set maybe.
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