CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 12:27 am Post subject: 909 stack update

So I've been watching my stack for the last 15 or so months, and one of the goals was to install a Sony Qualia 004 as a geometry reference projector to align the two 909s to. Well, we tried that today, and it turns out that the throw of the Qualia is a hair too long, so unless I knock 4" off my screen size all around, I would have to mount the Qualia in the next room and cut a hole in the wall to use it. Not gonna happen!

So my 315 hour Qualia will be for sale, and I'm putting up a 720p projector instead that has the right throw. Since it's only for geometry alignment, it's not a big deal, as it will downscale the 1080p signal to 720p. I'll put that up tomorrow along with the Moome HDMI internal cards. that will get rid of my RGBHV cable mess on the ceiling.

I chanced on someone that had a 909 stack about 7 years ago over on avs, and he said that he didn't have the drifting issues that I have put up with. So, that's the next step after the digital install, we'll see what is drifting in the damn 909s!

mp20748 · Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 1:33 am Post subject: Re: 909 blend update

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 2:06 am Post subject:

THis is after warmup, and seems to be related to H and V linearity. Sections of the screen will be out by 2-3 test pattern line thicknesses. I can tweak the zone, and then it's fine, and 30 minutes later another area of the screen is out. With a digital as reference, I'll be able to narrow it down, and start swapping boards...

gregstv · Joined: 27 Aug 2007 Posts: 628 Location: Australia

In theory wouldn't the fact that it is zone related and not full screen drift point to the convergence driver board?

mp20748 · Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 7:08 am Post subject:

Wow.. both V and H linearity shifting.

I agree, based on it being a zone problem (not affection H/V size) that the convergence is suspect. Also, one of the power amp boards in the tray (focus/convergence) was upgraded because of instability problems. I forgot which one, but do remember that the upgraded module had a larger heatsink attached.

But my biggest problems when maintaining the Blended units drift problems was the convergence boards and LVPS.

The best way to run this down is to use the internal diagnostics as your test meter. Bring up the screen that shows all the voltage readings. Do this on start up (cold) and take a screenshot of what's on the screen....you can then go back and let the set warm-up to the point you'd normally notice the problem...then bring up the internal diagnostics and take another screenshot for comparison to the first.

Look at the numbers and see which ones change. This will help you isolate the problem, because there are two of the power boards that will draw more current when hot. When that happens it will also affect the other boards best operations. And that's the main reason for the larger heatsink on one of those boards that was upgraded.

And I'm sure by now you've seen the 909 with the, I forgot what they called it, but it was an AC input board that was an active switching power circuit. It's on some of them and was an option. The diagnostics readout could also help in determining if the LVPS remains true. That active switching power thingy made for better overall stability. I know they were present on my three projector blend setup.

Anyway, the internal diagnostics would be your best tool to isolate this problem. I would think if the drifting persist after warm-up and the diagnostics don't move. I would suggest the convergence board. But with both vertical and horizontal changing at the same time, that makes me think you have a power supply or power board over heating and loading down the LVPS.

Strange as it may seem, the 909 LVPS uses basically the same power supply design they used in the early Barcos. I single chip regulator that fires up the power switch. Nothing at all sophisticated about that design. I was expecting a more industrial design, something that may have done much better with keeping the rails stable after warm-up. I might be wrong here, but for sure the diagnostics comparison should let you know where the problem is.

ElTopo · Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 1640

From cold my Cine9 has some convergence drift which is normal i think.

After about 5 minutes convergence is back to normal and stable.

ElTopo · Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 1640

Well i could use my VW200 as reference grid Cool

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 9:09 pm Post subject:

And that's exactly what I'm doing. My helper is installing a Sim2 that I got from the recycler up right now. then comes the HDMI 4 way splitter and the two Moome HDMI Barco cards. We'll see if that changes the pix at all.

mp20748 · Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 9:12 pm Post subject:

redfox001 · Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 2257 Location: The Netherlands

Oh man compare the drifting of a marquee to a 909 you will be so happy with the 909.

redfox001 · Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 2257 Location: The Netherlands

I have to say that with someone elses 919 I saw some warmup drift too. With my Cinemax there was only a very little bit much less than with him. I replaced all caps on the smps and the smps2 perhaps that has to do with it but I do not remember this one drifting much at all. Had 7000 hours.

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:51 pm Post subject:

Right, but on mine the drift between the two projectors.. and ONLY between the two sets is continual. I let the projectors warm up 20 minutes, and then if it annoys me, I do some tweaking. I set it correctly, and 5-30 minutes later, I can see that the sets have drifted again. Again, it's only between the two sets. Each projector by itself is solid as a rock after minimal warmup. I put some pix up showing the problems about a year ago here.

The Sim 2 is now up, the alignment to my screen is closer than expected, I'm really happy about that, so the next step is to rewire my HDMI signal from my receiver, and to put in the two Moome cards. I am going to do a scratch setup once I've confirmed the HDMI signal chain is working. I will leave focus and astig alone, as those should not have drifted, but I'll set geometry and convergence to midposition. Should take 4-5 hours this week to get things right, then I'll post a pix or three.

gregstv · Joined: 27 Aug 2007 Posts: 628 Location: Australia

What's the chance that the frame of the projector moves slightly with heat? You wouldn't notice this with one projector.

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 1:37 am Post subject:

Then I'd get a global shift. (man, you guys are going to make me look for that old thread, huh? Wink

)

This is a shift only in certain areas of the screen. Give me a bit, I'll find that old thread..

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 1:41 am Post subject:

Here you go. Second post down. This is what the sets do. Sometimes in a small area as shown here, sometimes completely up and down the screen in a small section, correctable via H or V fine linearity, sometimes in both directions.

https://www.curtpalme.com/forum_archived/viewtopic.php@t=36703.html

mp20748 · Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:09 am Post subject:

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:14 am Post subject:

Could be, although everything is digital until the output stage. I do have spare control boards, so who knows. As of tonight, the stack will be down for a week until I rewire the HDMI cabling, and then start the brutal process of realigning to the digital. Tonight I watch the digital.. sigh. Smile

gregstv · Joined: 27 Aug 2007 Posts: 628 Location: Australia

I looked at the picture. I didn't realise that all 3 colours drift together on one projector. A bit of a challenge I would think.

redfox001 · Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 2257 Location: The Netherlands

If it is the controller than probable green because that wave is added to red and blue but we will see.

redfox001 · Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 2257 Location: The Netherlands

With my marquee I have little warm up drift too by the way only a little more than the max but it reacts on room temperature very much. I have to look at my yokes for that one day but now I sometimes have to correct a lot but most times nothing. Very strange. But the max surprised me as all my other crt projectors used to drift and I was used to waiting those 15 minutes. Is the cine 9 somehow designed to drift less?