CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[karlandreasa]

Hi! I've Just bought an 9500LC Ultra (as i understand it, how do you know if it's ultra if the chassis does'nt say so?) with frankenyokes (g90 said but it seems like 1290, model 1-452-811-11 /KPK27) installed, the front part of the yoke-casing is missing. ( i can provide pictures for you to decide, just tell me what to take pictures off:) )
I am spoiled with a NEC XG75 before (everything in software) so when i searched around for ways to center the raster and found something about removing glue and rotating magnets (or worse things) i got a little worried. I did not find any guide in the topic, just hints spread out everywhere. I did not find any setting in the menu to shift either the raster or picture within, or any trimpot to turn, everything just seems to be about rezising.

Is there any particular resolution and framerate i should use when ajusting?

I have both manual (9500LC U) and a servicemanual of a 8000.
What have i missed? The raster is pretty well centered but not perfect.

[Tim in Phoenix]

Hello

Aim at a screen and push the * button, and tell us what you see.

[tschaeikaei]

Hi,
please take some photos of the focus coils, hose are the "Frankenyokes".

Don't worry about the glue and such things. You'll have to remove them, but it is easy. I can do a step by step guide if you need it.
And as you may know (about CRT projectors in general) it is always the best idea to set up the projector mechanically as good as possible
before you even touch the remote. That results in better picture and reliability over all.
You'll have to center the raster using the focus coils. No way around it.

Post the model number of the projector. It is on a sticker under the lens cover.
http://www.etechvideo.com/techtip4.htm
If you absolutely want to make sure what you got, tell us the number of the focus board and what the sticker on the green tube
(on the tube itself, not on the plastic housing) says. Should be P19LCP09-HKA or PT22-19.
Everything except the tube type is accessible via the remote.
Regards, Julian

[cmjohnson]

I am not currently aware of anyone who has successfully used G90 focus yokes in a Marquee. They're too different, to such a point that I consider them to be poor candidates and really of no benefit. As I recall, their magnetic and electrical parameters are WAY off and you can get better results from modified 1292 focus yokes which are also about the right length to be compatible with the Marquee tube magnetics.

[karlandreasa]

Ok, lets see..
First, i managed to center the raster, it was almost perfect centered from the start and the first convergence-point took care of the last details (it took a while before i found the green convergence)
Actually, i think it's pretty well centered because it moves in different directions at different frequencies.
Should i still center it mechanichally? for the resolution i'll use most? In that case, i would love a step by step-guide:)

About the yokes, Uploaded some photos.

The model: When i press * it tells med that it is a Electrohome ULTRA 9500LC, the chassis says 38-P13095-AC and the backplate says Marquee 9501LC. This is a total mix:p
The green tube is indeed a P19LCP09HKA.
On the remote i checked hardware id. This is what i found:
CLM V2
DPB V3
HDM 15kHz, V2
SWB Installed, V1
CMM Not installed
FCM V2 (FGM)
Decoder Installed, V2
Acon Not installed

I have CMM and ACON-card but i've heard they were not needed. Especially since i don't have any ACON-camera.

The lenses are DELTA HD-10GT17 in not the perfect condition (a little rusty but the lenses inside seems fine).

[karlandreasa]

Oh, by the way, the RGB-input-card is modified "for better focus" with a trimpot and replaced caps. I have an original aswell. The tubes are all 9:ers:) No wear to be seen at all.

The glucol, on the other hand, has some junk at the bottom (under the picture so no issue, but still), the red and green LC-rubber are really squishy, the blue is still "pushable" but a little more firm. Is this a risk already or where do you draw the line?
No leaks so far:)

[tschaeikaei]

I'd go the safe way about the glycol and bellows. Are there fluid drops at the bellows outside?
If yes:
Remove the lenses, then the tubes.
When you have the tubes on the bench you can go the easy and the right way.
Easy way:


Loosen the two bigger screws at the upper side and the corresponding two screws at the bottom of the assembly.
Stick something about 1/8 inch thick between the parts.
Then you can safely open the fillscrew. Remove only one fillscrew, leave the other tightened.
Flip the tube 180 degrees that the fill screws are at the bottom (place a container underneath it),
remove the 1/8 inch spacers and retighten the four screws previously loosened while the tube is upside down.
A little glycol will come out the fillhole.
Make sure you clean the metal parts and bellow well before you reassemble everything.


If you want to make everything last for some more years, go through this procedure:
http://www.curtpalme.com/Marquee_LC_removal.shtm
Remove the glycol and repaint the aluminium housing. use stainless steel fillscrews (to avoid corrosion).

Remove the glycol completely by pumping with the four screws removed.
That is a lot easier than using a syringe and small hoses. But you will need those to refill with of course new glycol.
I bought a 5l container at ebay for about 30€/ 35$.
It is about 600ml per tube (don't know exactly).

Tell me if you do the glycol thing or if you will go on with the setup.
Regards, Julian

[karlandreasa]

Thanks for the link! That's the first guide i see that does'nt remove the tube itself from the frame and does'nt require silicone:)
It will probably take a while before i start using the projector for real, so i think i'll wait with "the right way". It will be the easy way for now (the seal seems solid, no fluid on the outside as far as i can see or feel).

I promise to do the whole thing before i start using the projector for real:)
About the glycol: Its hard to find the real deal in sweden and hard to import due to regulations, but some people gave me a link to this: ProMeister 774F/G30/G12+ (no colour) "Based on etylenglycol with "things" added to prevent corrosion, espessially on "lightmetal"? (=Aluminium)."
Glycerol can be found at our pharmacies.
I just want to check here to before i start removing the glycol i have in the tubes: Would this car-stuff really work for Projector? Has anyone tried?

[tschaeikaei]

Search for Monoethyleneglycol (C2H6O2), there are other kinds of this stuff but this is the right one.
https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glykoler
Most manufacturers mixed it 70/30 with glycerine (because of the refraction index),
but I (and others) made good experiences using pure glycol.
Maybe you want to go with this stuff: https://www.curtpalme.com/forum_archived/viewtopic.php@t=37673.html
If glycol leaks, it won't come out of the seals but sweat out of the bellow itself, looking like this:

http://www.curtpalme.com/MarqueeBellows.shtm

[karlandreasa]

Thanks for info and picture:) I've searched around and all ethylenegycol seems to have things added for better behavior in cars. The queistion was about using colourfree glycol for cars in projectors:)
Later today, we went to grab a burger at our local gasstation and there i think i found the most promising so far:)
http://number-1.se/htm/multiglykol.html

It's monoethyleneglycol 93%, "corrosion-stoppers" 5%, water up to 4%. Other glycol-sorts up to 0,5%, ashes: up to 1,1%.

[tschaeikaei]

I would not want water in my glycol. Not at all.
The question is not what the stuff is meant to be used in but what ingredients are in it.
Mine is 99% monoetyleneglycol.
Did you look for the ice clear antifreeze stuff?
If i didn't change my glycol some weeks ago i'd definitely try this.
This is what i bought, ebay article number 161715280562
Regards, Julian

[karlandreasa]

Ok, No water then:)

Checked for Ice Clear AF And could not find outside US:( Seems REALLY good though.
The one You bought seemed perfect but apparently only ships inside Germany. I will contact them and check if i don't find any in sweden that suits. Contacting some chemical-distributors now.

I read the product papers for the first glycol (the first link) again, and maybe it's close enough?:

95-100% 1,2-etandiol (EG 203-473-3)
2-3% Natrium-2-etylhexanoat (EG 243-283-8) (metal-salt)

I know, the math does'nt add up

About the pictures of the yokes and all the different modelnumbers: Was it possible figure out what model and yokes i actually have?

Edit: I just checked the pcb:s. Most of them has some kind of mod, the video-signal-cables seems new, there is a trimpot on the PS that i thought was a fan-speed but it was'nt and so on. Is there any way to figure out what mods i have and wich are recommended without sending the pcb:s abroad? I checked the list of MP-mods and i think that's what it is but then i see this small wires soldered here and there:P If i have understood the rules right, it's inappropiate to post photos of pcb:s here?

It seems there is a way to get IceClearAF to sweden after all, i just have to figure out if it's worth it with taxes and so on;)

[karlandreasa]

I Just took a closer look at the bellows (as close as you get without taking the tubes out of the PJ), it seems like the red tube are leaking slightly (or has been, anyway). it's a little bit corroded in some spaces (white crystals, like a leaking battery. a little rusty bolts). There is a screw that seems to be on top of the HVPS, that is a little corroded but it looks like it's been dried out. How worried should i be and what could i do? I was hoping to wait with this until i have something to replace with and the right equipment:(

[Nashou66]

Don't touch the trim pot and might be for the heater element and has to be set at 6.35 V or you'll burn up the cathode of the tubes.

Also you'll need new Bellows you can click on the link in my signature for the place to buy them .


Use denatured alcohol and clean all boards with it useing a soft tooth brush. Clean all contacts and get
An IC puller and clean all of the chips on the CLM . Use caigs de-oxit to clean sockets and pins on connectors through out the pj.


Good luck

Athanasios

[cmjohnson]

Nashou's bellows ARE the thing to get. They are reformulated to last longer and not sweat glycol. While it's more work to replace the bellows, it's well worth doing.

It's also well worth it to completely clean the entire LC chamber, mask off the CRT face very carefully, and spray the interior of the LC chamber with black VHT epoxy paint, which will seal up the LC chamber to avoid chemical interactions between the aluminum chamber components and the glycol. While the originals were originally hardcoat anodized, sometimes that anodize things out and starts to fail in spots, particularly if you scrape the leftovers of the old bellows off. (Which is often necessary.) You want to keep any bare aluminum from contact with glycol. This will give you the longest usable lifespan of the coolant.

[karlandreasa]

how much do you think it would cost to ship bellows to sweden (including toll, taxes and so on)? I spent my entire supertiny budget (about $600) on the projector and thinking about trying to do what i can with the old bellows until i have saved enough:)

EDIT: i missed the big sign saying FREE SHIPPING WORLDWIDE, sorry:)

I've removed the tube from the chassis, fortunatley, the glycol did not get far (it stayed on the aluminium-plate that all 3 tubes are bolted to. I started by cleaning that and everything near it with rubbing alcohol. The tubes are waiting on a towel with plastic under until i have all the equipment i need (starting with new glycol as i now have found some fungus).

I think my HVPS has been trough some glycol-leaking in another chassis before (dry traces inside, no traces on the way in or even a way in to that part at all, took EVERYTHING apart just to check) Are the visible traces something worrying or is that how it will look after cleaning a pcb?

PS: I did touch the trimpot beleiving that i wold change fan-speed, (only down and back) but now i will measure and get it right before plugging in the heater-plug again:)



Life with a CRT: Always an adventure;)

[karlandreasa]

I've finally decided to do everything "by the book" and make this machine as good as i can and last as long as possible:) And even better: i have WA (Wife-approval) to do so:)
My current plan: Proper cleaning, New bellows, repaint LC-chambers, IceClear AF inside.
I'm going to try to make the cooling better and quieter aswell (inspired by julian, arduino controlling temperature, fan on the heatsink at the back to prevent convergence-drifting, maybe some new "heat-transfer"-paste or tape will help too.)
I'm also on a hunt for a MOOME-card, hopefully i can by a used here in sweden:)
It will take a while to aquire everything (my wallet need to keep up) but i hope i'm doing the right thing.
Have i forgotten anything important/recommended?


Nashou66: Do i REALLY have to clean everything (every board, every connector, every ic+socket) even if the glycol didn't seem to make it there?

I read on the IceClear thread about what cleaning-"chemical" he used for cleaning the c-element with "light detergent". When i try to translate that to swedish i get confused (i always end up with 2 word: light as in "not dark" or "not strong" and detergent as "general word for cleaning-fluid/powder/alike). just to be shure: what do people use light detergent for in normal circumstances? laundry? floors? windows?

And now the good news starts comin' in aswell: I FINALLY found VHT epoxy-spraypaint in sweden! and it's at a shop near me:)
It also seems like it's possible to order IceClear AF to sweden after all, just hoping i won't have to buy and pay shipping+toll on 4 gallons when i just need about 3-4 Litres

Nashou66: Would you be interested in me order bellows from you, pay you some extra for the shipping and have you ship the Antifreeze + bellows to me? All prepaid ofcourse:)

[Nashou66]

Yes clean all boards and connectors no matter what. It will keep the Marquee in top running shape and performance.

I do not like shipping liquids over seas. I had tried it once and it got sent back before it even left the country. With a warning letter
attached. Some liquids need special license . I thought it was bull sh*t but whatever,

For the VHT paint let it cure foot at least a week before adding the Glycol or Ice Clear.

Athanasios

[karlandreasa]

[draganm]

this is not good, look at the solder joints on top of the big Brown 400V resistor , how burned up they are. I'm not sure I would continue to use this , but if you do
At the very least you need to re-solder these resistors. I would also replace the the 2 AL capacitors below them. You want a 22UF cap with 160 to 200V voltage rating , radial LOW ESR capacitor.
Looks like someone already worked on these boards, really shocked they left those resistors like that.