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ElTopo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1640
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 7:41 pm Post subject: UHD Blu Ray on CRT |
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Even with only 1080p coming from a UHD Blu Ray a CRT will look great for sure.
The upcoming material will have less compression and new mastering.
Let's get it on with an Integral from the Fury team.
What do you think ?
Can't wait for the first player and discs to show up.......
ElTopo
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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While I am excited, I am not frothing at the mouth. Ron Jones started that thread on AVS over two years ago and still no UHD. At best, I see only a handful of titles (maybe 5) coming out next year.
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racerxnet
Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 362
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, UHD is coming out, but need HDMI 2.0, HDCP 2.2 and HEVC.265 decoding. Are there any set top players for UHD playback available? On the PC side only Nvidia has cards ready for UHD. If we take a 4k film and play it back on a 1080p device do we downscale it to native resolution with MADvr? And if so are we gaining picture quality? I'll hold out until the standards and devices mature more, then pull the trigger. Still to many question that need to be addressed. I always stop to look at the 4K TV's at Sam's club. The prices are pretty dang reasonable.
MAK
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cmjohnson
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 5180
Location: Buried under G90s
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| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 5:49 am Post subject: |
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Forget seeing native 4K on any CRT projector. 2K is really the practical limit for the best 9" LC machines.
If you had the input card, you'd have to upgrade the video chain to absurd bandwidth. If you had the video chain bandwidth, you'd have to contend with CRT spot size and cathode capacitance as a bandwidth limiting issue, probably the single hardest issue to solve.
If you had the CRT bandwidth, you'd then have to contend with the resolution capabilities of the lenses. This actually isn't too terribly difficult I calculate that assuming a 4" tall raster, you'd need 10.6 line pairs per millimeter on the tube face at 4K.
HD10GT17s and other top end lenses are rated for 12 line pairs/millimeter.
So the lenses are the only 4K ready equipment in any CRT projector today.
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:03 am Post subject: |
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Good chance UHD blu ray is a dead duck. The masses will never go that way. They might have an UHD tv but probable will not buy the UHD blu ray player untill it is very very cheap.
So the UHD content will go through streaming. I had netflix for two months but found the quality unacceptable compared to downloads. Same show in vlc player downloaded looked much better. Most people I discussed with did not notice the difference on their tv or projector. Will they notice UHD? Netflix uses UHD for marketing but in reality what is it?
I am going to check out Jesica Jones as it is available in UHD download and my tv should be able to display it. But I do not expect tv shows in UHD much besides Netflix shows. Noone can broadcast them.
So who is going to buy the UHD material? Is there a market?
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Last edited by redfox001 on Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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redfox001
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ElTopo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1640
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| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 11:22 am Post subject: |
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I'm talking 1080p on CRT not native 4K.
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
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Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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I think it should be possible to use a UHD blu ray for the uncompressed colour information 4:4:4 from the source if I understand well. Is that what you mean?
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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I read it allows frame rates up to 120 Hz. That could be nice too but at 72 Hz it all looks very smooth.
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
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Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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This is also interesting:
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What this does illustrate, is that even though 4K proves overkill for the average consumer, they will still reap benefits from its existence even on a 1080p display device. The mere fact that content creators will be using 4K, will improve the quality of 1080p down-sampled material as well. A 1080p BluRay created from 4K source material will look sharper than if it would have been filmed directly in 1080p.
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http://www.dr-lex.be/info-stuff/ultrahighdef.html
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The pointless megapixel race for digital still cameras has been going on for years and has resulted in horribly noisy sensors that need a thick fat layer of denoising algorithms to produce output that does not look entirely ridiculous. It seems humanity likes to bump its head against the same stone over and over again.
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racerxnet
Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 362
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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We may see 4k content produced and scaled to 1080p, but what bit depth does the end user panel support? And what is the color space output to the panel to realize any wide gamut offerings. For CRT it has been said above that 1080p is about the limit. It's all good in the end. Be happy.
MAK
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GREG1292
Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 417
Location: indiana
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| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| redfox001 wrote: | This is also interesting:
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What this does illustrate, is that even though 4K proves overkill for the average consumer, they will still reap benefits from its existence even on a 1080p display device. The mere fact that content creators will be using 4K, will improve the quality of 1080p down-sampled material as well. A 1080p BluRay created from 4K source material will look sharper than if it would have been filmed directly in 1080p.
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http://www.dr-lex.be/info-stuff/ultrahighdef.html
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The pointless megapixel race for digital still cameras has been going on for years and has resulted in horribly noisy sensors that need a thick fat layer of denoising algorithms to produce output that does not look entirely ridiculous. It seems humanity likes to bump its head against the same stone over and over again.
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Good job redfox nice read and with madVr/needi and larger gpu's it is not as important as we all think.
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cmjohnson
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
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Location: Buried under G90s
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 3:18 am Post subject: |
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Speaking as a fairly serious amateur photographer, I can tell you that modern DSLR cameras are getting stupidly high ISO equivalent ratings with very low noise levels at resolutions that make a 4K projector look like a toy.
I routinely shoot 36.2 MP pictures at ISO 5000 with my D800 and there's no visible noise in the picture unless it's a picture of the night sky and the exposure time is in the tens of seconds.
High resolution has some real advantages, especially if you're trying to image something that is small or far away.
I now only use my 10.2 MP D200s as backups and walking around cameras, with all the "serious" work allocated to the D800.
As for 4K HD, the difference between 4K and 1080p as seen on a current generation 45" OLED TV is quite visible. It is really a marvelous image to behold if you have the source material to support it.
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
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Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 7:28 am Post subject: |
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Ive stated that last part in the past CM, i have a 28" UHD monitor with Displayport on it to get 3840x2160 at 60Hz so it is actually usable for something other than still images on a demo video in the shops, and you can clearly see the difference even at that size.
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
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Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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Ok I have a 2160p and a 1080p version of Jessica Jones from Netflix and I can watch both versions on my Sony native UHD KD49X8505.
My impression is that I see some very small details in the background with the 2160p source but the difference is very small.
I made some shots with my iphone as they show the small difference as it really is on my television. What to conclude? I would not pay for it on my television because the difference is to small for me. Good blacklevels has much more impact. But I noticed it on a black white dress of a woman on the background etc.
 Untitled by Radio Head, on Flickr
 Untitled by Radio Head, on Flickr
 Untitled by Radio Head, on Flickr
 Untitled by Radio Head, on Flickr
 Untitled by Radio Head, on Flickr
 Untitled by Radio Head, on Flickr
 Untitled by Radio Head, on Flickr
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Last edited by redfox001 on Sun Dec 06, 2015 2:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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But I think you guys can say if the first or the second pictures are 2160p? The 2160p was 15GB and the 1080p was 5GB.
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
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Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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LOL I was watching the 1080p version for a while and thought it was the 2160p version and I was thinking weel ok I have to admit it looks sharp than I stopped and OMG it is the 1080p version  You really forget all about any difference after 10 minutes.
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Hulio
Joined: 15 Apr 2006
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Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know wich is wich but the second set of pics have better definition and more detail in dark scenes.
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
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Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Hulio wrote: | | I don't know wich is wich but the second set of pics have better definition and more detail in dark scenes. |
Yes correct the second are the UHD. It is visible I see it too. But the detail in the dark is caused by the camera where I adjusted the lightning different.
I am contemplating this. Both sources are downloaded and come from Netflix. Both are upscaled to UHD. However I have the scaling and sharpening options very low and I think that is right as when I just bought the tv it looked very sharp. The 1080p upscaled looked much sharper than the UHD looks now. It also was very unnatural so I set the sharpening to very low untill it looked natural. What you see when you see a UHD tv in the showroom is sharpening at 50% and that is way to much.
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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Last pic again in 1080p HD but with a little sharpening, no reality creation.
 Untitled by Radio Head, on Flickr
When I look at the lamp I see a little difference.
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