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thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 1311
Location: Sweden
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 7:24 am Post subject: Re: Darbee DVP-5100CIE |
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| thewolfman wrote: | http://www.avsforum.com/forum/37-video-processors/1687930-darbee-dvp-5100cie-image-enhancement-processor-cedia-2014-a.html
If 499$ holds true I want it. If it indeed does 817@72Hz I'm getting it. |
Why.?
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thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 1311
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 4:24 pm Post subject: Re: Darbee DVP-5100CIE |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | thewolfman wrote: | http://www.avsforum.com/forum/37-video-processors/1687930-darbee-dvp-5100cie-image-enhancement-processor-cedia-2014-a.html
If 499$ holds true I want it. If it indeed does 817@72Hz I'm getting it. |
Why.? |
I know you like a clean chain, but with a price tag of only 499 I think I want to try it. If is that bad after all I could retire it with a new plasma TV that I also need. I just want to see for myself what it will do to the image.
It occurred to me just now, that you have Darbee in your OPPO 103, and if there's no trouble I would love to see some screenies with it on and off. A suddle use of like 5-10% maybe.
Last edited by thewolfman on Sun Sep 21, 2014 7:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 6:10 pm Post subject: Re: Darbee DVP-5100CIE |
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| thewolfman wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | thewolfman wrote: | http://www.avsforum.com/forum/37-video-processors/1687930-darbee-dvp-5100cie-image-enhancement-processor-cedia-2014-a.html
If 499$ holds true I want it. If it indeed does 817@72Hz I'm getting it. |
Why.? |
I know you like a clean chain, but with a price tag of only 499 I think I want to try it. If is that bad after all I could retire it with a new plasma TV that I also need. I just want to see for myself what it will do to the image.
It occurred to me just now, that you have Darbee in your OPPO 103, and if there's no trouble I would love to see some screenies with it on and off. A suddle use of like 5-10% maybe. |
Yeah ill hate to put a extra processor in the chain on a reference CRT setup.
If you want to try the Darbee, why dont you buy the OPPO 103D, then you have a reference blu ray player, at around the same price as a standalone Darbee unit.
If you have a poor/ bad image on your setup, you might like the Darbee, for sure it makes it impossible to make the reference image, who can be made with a high bandwidth Marquee, and a good video chain like the OPPO 103 and the right Moome card.
And you also might put the money into a Radiance with Darbee if you dont care about the integrity of the signal you feed your Marquee. That will give you even more options to manipulate your signal.
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thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 1311
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:05 pm Post subject: Re: Darbee DVP-5100CIE |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | thewolfman wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | thewolfman wrote: | http://www.avsforum.com/forum/37-video-processors/1687930-darbee-dvp-5100cie-image-enhancement-processor-cedia-2014-a.html
If 499$ holds true I want it. If it indeed does 817@72Hz I'm getting it. |
Why.? |
I know you like a clean chain, but with a price tag of only 499 I think I want to try it. If is that bad after all I could retire it with a new plasma TV that I also need. I just want to see for myself what it will do to the image.
It occurred to me just now, that you have Darbee in your OPPO 103, and if there's no trouble I would love to see some screenies with it on and off. A suddle use of like 5-10% maybe. |
Yeah ill hate to put a extra processor in the chain on a reference CRT setup.
If you want to try the Darbee, why dont you buy the OPPO 103D, then you have a reference blu ray player, at around the same price as a standalone Darbee unit.
If you have a poor/ bad image on your setup, you might like the Darbee, for sure it makes it impossible to make the reference image, who can be made with a high bandwidth Marquee, and a good video chain like the OPPO 103 and the right Moome card.
And you also might put the money into a Radiance with Darbee if you dont care about the integrity of the signal you feed your Marquee. That will give you even more options to manipulate your signal. |
If it wasn't for the Cinavia protection that would be a very good idea. I googled it and realize it's only like 200$ more for a player like that. But I would also need a VP with that solution and then the $ starts to pile up. Ah well, we'll see what happens.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 4:46 am Post subject: |
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What does Cinavia have to do with it?
Here's my question… If you want to try Darbee, why not just insert a Darblet in your chain? Leave everything else as-is, and for $300 get what you want. Other than the rack-mount case and the long-cable driver, I'm not sure what this new model offers that the current offering doesn't, and for $200 less money.
I don't like the idea of the 103D because then you either have no Darbee processing on any source other than BD, or you have to route all your other sources through the 103D. It costs a little more, but I'd rather have the standalone unit.
SC
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thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 1311
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | What does Cinavia have to do with it?
Here's my question… If you want to try Darbee, why not just insert a Darblet in your chain? Leave everything else as-is, and for $300 get what you want. Other than the rack-mount case and the long-cable driver, I'm not sure what this new model offers that the current offering doesn't, and for $200 less money.
I don't like the idea of the 103D because then you either have no Darbee processing on any source other than BD, or you have to route all your other sources through the 103D. It costs a little more, but I'd rather have the standalone unit.
SC |
As far as I know, Darblet doesn't handle 817@72Hz but only 1080p@60Hz, and with this new version I just assumed it would.
As for OPPO and Cinavia, I need a version that still has the ISO firmware intact, because after some date in 2012 it was removed.
But, googling the matter, made me aware that OPPO 93/95 is in fact downgrade-able to the last working firmware with ISO, which is a good thing, because I can't make my pc to work with HDMI and 7.1 as my pc freezes as soon as I connect the HDMI cable. But with OPPO 7.1 output I believe this would be solved.
I also happen to have a 2TB HDD, which is max an OPPO can handle anyway, to use for this sort of thing (eSata port). I get no Darbee with this solution, but audio will be solved and more than likely better sounding, I think that a stand alone blue-ray player will outperform a pc easily in terms of image quality to.
I found this guy on Ebay, that seems to make a living selling these ISO 93/95 OPPOs, and some of them were reasonable priced to.
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1896843
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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No normal hardware for HT today do 817P 72hz, or 1080P 72hz for that matter, there you need the Radiance or the Hdfury4, and you have to do all the mess to your signal before you frame tripple.
And if you have the Marquee up running right with the high bandwidth mod you wont need 817P, it will do better running full 1080P.
So if you want to add a Darbee in the chain you put it before you convert to 72hz.
A good advice, keep it simple, stick with 1 resolution to the projector, and if you need scaling for some sources, the OPPO 103D do the best scaling job i have ever seen, beats up the Radiance big time.
No idea why you need the ISO file playback, as i never used that, i just run my Blu ray movies, maybe a DVD and a lot of Netflix, wich the 103D also do a amasing job at, beating the crap out of the Apple TV3 or any other Netflix streamers i have seen, its now so close to BD quality that i dont notice the usual streaming downsides.
So my OPPO 103D and my Hdfury4 has replaced my Radiance XS+, Denon DVD A1XVA, and OPPO 83.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | No idea why you need the ISO file playback, as i never used that, i just run my Blu ray movies, |
Near-instantaneous playback, no FBI warnings, no unwanted unskippable trailers, super-fast navigation, and never have to load a disk. It's some work to set up, takes a lot of storage, and is (IMHO) way more hassle than it's worth. But, that's just me. I totally understand why some people want to do it - the experience is awesome. I just don't have any interest in going to the work personally and working to avoid all the pitfalls.
| stridsvognen wrote: | | maybe a DVD and a lot of Netflix, wich the 103D also do a amasing job at, beating the crap out of the Apple TV3 or any other Netflix streamers i have seen, its now so close to BD quality that i dont notice the usual streaming downsides. |
Hmm… I never noticed any difference between Netflix streaming on the ATV3 and Oppo. Netflix streaming on either are inferior to Vudu HDX and iTunes movie rentals, though - especially audio. One thing that none of them seem to offer (unless somebody has updated firmware since I packed up my theater in July) is native 24p playback. Every single streaming player all outputs 60p, which sucks. Regardless, while the video quality is very good, calling it "so close to BD" is way overstating how comparable the quality is. Perhaps your CRT is concealing some of the differences.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| thewolfman wrote: | | As far as I know, Darblet doesn't handle 817@72Hz but only 1080p@60Hz, and with this new version I just assumed it would. |
I would assume this new version wouldn't support 817p. Aside from a hundred or two CRT users, there's just no reason for any non-pro devices to support something like that. It's too niche. That's where devices like the Lumagen come in. The target market and price accommodate capabilities like scaling and non-standard resolutions and refresh rates.
Like Stridsvognen said, if you want to try the Darbee, you'll probably have to go to a set-top like the Oppo 103 and put the Darbee in the chain between it and a scaler.
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | No idea why you need the ISO file playback, as i never used that, i just run my Blu ray movies, |
Near-instantaneous playback, no FBI warnings, no unwanted unskippable trailers, super-fast navigation, and never have to load a disk. It's some work to set up, takes a lot of storage, and is (IMHO) way more hassle than it's worth. But, that's just me. I totally understand why some people want to do it - the experience is awesome. I just don't have any interest in going to the work personally and working to avoid all the pitfalls.
| stridsvognen wrote: | | maybe a DVD and a lot of Netflix, wich the 103D also do a amasing job at, beating the crap out of the Apple TV3 or any other Netflix streamers i have seen, its now so close to BD quality that i dont notice the usual streaming downsides. |
Hmm… I never noticed any difference between Netflix streaming on the ATV3 and Oppo. Netflix streaming on either are inferior to Vudu HDX and iTunes movie rentals, though - especially audio. One thing that none of them seem to offer (unless somebody has updated firmware since I packed up my theater in July) is native 24p playback. Every single streaming player all outputs 60p, which sucks. Regardless, while the video quality is very good, calling it "so close to BD" is way overstating how comparable the quality is. Perhaps your CRT is concealing some of the differences.
SC |
Thanks for explaining the ISO stuff, now i have a idea what thats all about.
About the Netflix streaming its kind of the other way around, my CRT displays stuff that i dont see as much on other displays.
Whats most clear is that there is no color banding on the 103D, and i wonder if thats to do with the 1080P super HD, might stream higher bitdept, than the other streamers i seen so far, for sure the Apple TV3 displays a lot of color banding.
I cant say yhow much is the VRS chipset or the material it streams, i just know the end result is no less than amasing, i guess the processor power must do a bit to, at least when comes to scaling.
I can only say, go see it, i find errors software bugs and stuff, but when working around that its a amasing player.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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I'll have to give it a try again when I get my system set up in the bedroom. I'm waiting on some furniture before I set up my Panasonic 50 LCD, Oppo, and Apple TV. My recollection is that my results seemed to mirror that of the captures I've seen posted on AVS; those captures always indicated a little cleaner image from Apple movie rentals or from VUDU HDX than from Netflix. I'll take a look again once I get a good system working again.
Banding does tend to stick out like a sore thumb on CRT, but the lower MTF of CRT does tend to mask subtle differences in sharpness. That's one area where Netflix and even VUDU HDX or Apple rentals just don't compare to BD.
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | I'll have to give it a try again when I get my system set up in the bedroom. I'm waiting on some furniture before I set up my Panasonic 50 LCD, Oppo, and Apple TV. My recollection is that my results seemed to mirror that of the captures I've seen posted on AVS; those captures always indicated a little cleaner image from Apple movie rentals or from VUDU HDX than from Netflix. I'll take a look again once I get a good system working again.
Banding does tend to stick out like a sore thumb on CRT, but the lower MTF of CRT does tend to mask subtle differences in sharpness. That's one area where Netflix and even VUDU HDX or Apple rentals just don't compare to BD.
SC |
Now im curious to what OPPO players you tested.?
And ill say that its more like the lousy bandwidth performance on normal CRT that soften the image.
I have better detail level on my Marquee compared to my JVC, and thats from black to white.
Why dont you join the meet at Williams place, bring your JVC, and we will have all the gear we need to calibrate our references.
If you join ill buy a OPPO 103D in USA just to show you. 
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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I just sold a bunch of my stuff and moved across the country, including my JVC, so sadly that won't be possible. Hoping to begin construction on a new theater maybe after the holidays. Maybe.
I'd love to join you all at William's, but work and family schedules won't allow. I was just gone at CEDIA for a week.
So you're suggesting that your Marquee has a higher MTF than the JVC? Not only is that a very unconventional opinion, but it flies in the face of logic, my personal experience, and everything I've ever seen written on the subject by experts like Scott at Electrohome. But, I suppose since I don't have a modded Marquee or a JVC to prove it to you with, and you wouldn't admit that the JVC was better in that regard even if it were, we'll have to just agree to disagree on that one.
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | I just sold a bunch of my stuff and moved across the country, including my JVC, so sadly that won't be possible. Hoping to begin construction on a new theater maybe after the holidays. Maybe.
I'd love to join you all at William's, but work and family schedules won't allow. I was just gone at CEDIA for a week.
So you're suggesting that your Marquee has a higher MTF than the JVC? Not only is that a very unconventional opinion, but it flies in the face of logic, my personal experience, and everything I've ever seen written on the subject by experts like Scott at Electrohome. But, I suppose since I don't have a modded Marquee or a JVC to prove it to you with, and you wouldn't admit that the JVC was better in that regard even if it were, we'll have to just agree to disagree on that one.
SC |
MTF will be better on the JVC, but there is more to a image, and my Marquee do a better 1:1 bandwidth test, the JVC cant do at full 1:1 on off, so they both have a weakness.
Only perfect MTF and perfect 1:1 full on off i seen comes from 1 chip DLP.
My marquee holds a better color balance with different resolutions, it have much better on off contrast, and the JVC have better ansi contrast.
I would love to show you the end result of a Marquee resolving a 200Mhz signal, the benefit of a smooth gamma run with no digital manipulation, or correction to fit the response of a digital display device.
So when looking at the end result, there is no doubt what image is the most vibrant alive dynamic natural organic image, with the most details and color nuances.
I easy agree with you that 99% of all CRT projectors look soft washed out boring with poor colors, and the JVC will eat that in most cases, and ill admit that the JVC easy beats my SONY G90.
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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It was the consensus at Cliff's meet that the Darbee improved the image up to about a setting of 30. I think 30 is where we left it.
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