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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | Given that, I'd amend Justin's list like this:
1) For approx. $500 and a day's worth of work you can continue using your Marquee.
2) For approx. $1,500 and a couple of hours you can have a digital with better performance than your Marquee |
It's important to point out that option (1) is only possible if you're comfortable and knowledgeable with changing a tube per the instructions here: http://www.curtpalme.com/CRT_Tube_Replacement.shtm
If it's an LC tube you'll need to reuse the LC chamber, so things get a bit more complicated: http://www.curtpalme.com/Marquee_LC_tube_replacement1.shtm
To get proper performance out of it, you'll have to know how to re-align the magnetics / redo astigmatism after. See here: http://www.curtpalme.com/Astig.shtm
Changing a tube is not like changing a lightbulb. I would say the average person does not have the skills required to do this. It's definitely for the more hardcore DIY'ers out there. (.. and before I get flack for saying this, most of the people reading this have probably been on this forum for years and would be considered hard core DIY'ers.). Put it this way, if you'd never consider even attempting changing your own oil in the car, changing a tube isn't for you.
Kal
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My basement/HT/bar/brewery build 2.0
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garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12088
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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Agreed, Kal. Changing a tube is a much bigger deal than changing your oil. Turning an 8500 into a 9500LC is a major project.
| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | More so its usage pattern and how well the machine is maintained than its running time, actual hours of operation mean very little. If you turn on a "5,000 hour bulb" and never ever turn it off, provided the filters are kept clean enough it will probably go for well over 20,000 hours. |
But that's just how long it runs before it goes poof, right? What about its light output and color balance? Most bulbs (at least the bulbs before the most recent generation) have dramatic light dropoff well within their 2000 (or whatever) hour service life. I think that's caused by hours, not by lamp strikes.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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Going from 8500 to 9500 was not a huge project. Just pull 8 inch tubes. Remove the bottom tube plate for the 8 inch tubes. install the bottom plate for the 9 inch tubes. drop in 9 inch tubes. install top plate for 9 inch tubes. Align per the marquee onscreen set up and your done.
And I did it while on the ceiling. Took me 30-45 minutes for each PJ. 
Athanasios
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"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
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Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| garyfritz wrote: | Agreed, Kal. Changing a tube is a much bigger deal than changing your oil. Turning an 8500 into a 9500LC is a major project.
| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | More so its usage pattern and how well the machine is maintained than its running time, actual hours of operation mean very little. If you turn on a "5,000 hour bulb" and never ever turn it off, provided the filters are kept clean enough it will probably go for well over 20,000 hours. |
But that's just how long it runs before it goes poof, right? What about its light output and color balance? Most bulbs (at least the bulbs before the most recent generation) have dramatic light dropoff well within their 2000 (or whatever) hour service life. I think that's caused by hours, not by lamp strikes. |
Well thats possible, but its also the change in colour output of the lamp. However lamp degradation is somewhat increased by on-off cycles, heating and cooling, and overall running temperatures. The equipment driving the lamp also has a big influence on its life. The same can be said for any form of discharge lighting.
If the lamp is properly cared for it will generally last considerably longer in every respect, colour/brightness uniformity etc, and i do say generally because some will last alot longer than others. In my case at work, these projectors operate in less than ideal lighting conditions, so the effects of bulb life are less of an issue, the contrast ratio is terrible to begin with, the projectors are cheap, low contrast ratio, high light output, and people are not viewing them for their outstanding picture quality. The fact that they will go well beyond their rated hours is still of some importance in some situations. You or i would probably not consider it an option in our homes, however thousands of others wouldnt care as long as it worked.
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Barco Cine 9, ,Sony VPL570ES 4K SXRD, 135" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, Denon X6700in preamp mode, 2x 7ch Tonewinner amps, 2x Tonewinner 15" subs, 2x 10" subs, 7.2.6...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
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jbmeyer13
Joined: 03 Dec 2010
Posts: 1135
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: | | ecrabb wrote: | Given that, I'd amend Justin's list like this:
1) For approx. $500 and a day's worth of work you can continue using your Marquee.
2) For approx. $1,500 and a couple of hours you can have a digital with better performance than your Marquee |
It's important to point out that option (1) is only possible if you're comfortable and knowledgeable with changing a tube per the instructions here: http://www.curtpalme.com/CRT_Tube_Replacement.shtm
If it's an LC tube you'll need to reuse the LC chamber, so things get a bit more complicated: http://www.curtpalme.com/Marquee_LC_tube_replacement1.shtm
To get proper performance out of it, you'll have to know how to re-align the magnetics / redo astigmatism after. See here: http://www.curtpalme.com/Astig.shtm
Changing a tube is not like changing a lightbulb. I would say the average person does not have the skills required to do this. It's definitely for the more hardcore DIY'ers out there. (.. and before I get flack for saying this, most of the people reading this have probably been on this forum for years and would be considered hard core DIY'ers.). Put it this way, if you'd never consider even attempting changing your own oil in the car, changing a tube isn't for you.
Kal |
Hey Kal,
I think this is making a little too much of it. In the current market, he can buy a "plug and play" solution from Curt (LC tube/housing with factory aligned magnetics) and not have to deal with 90% of this. Only tools required are an allen driver and screw driver.
Reusing a LC chamber is an entirely different project and I don't think any of us were suggesting that. I sure wasn't!
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Projector: Modded 9501LC ULtra- MP VIM, Vold VNB, ETECH LVPS, Silver VIM Cables, HD10F's & a V1 case!
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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Funny, i was going to post the same thing JB, but didn't want to come off as a complete CRT fanatic.
Oh wait, I am!
Definitely, with preset magnetics on a set of tubes, prealigned the way the VDC tubes come, they are indeed little more than dropping them in. From the 10 or so new old stock tubes I've put in, you could come pretty close to a great color balance using the default G2 and gain values off Tim's site. So as long as you're comfortable doing geometry and convergence, there's really not much more to it than that.
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tschaeikaei
Joined: 08 Apr 2013
Posts: 490
Location: Germany/Saarland
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe that blue tube has a failure on one grid? There are people here, who can repair a tube.
I wonder why no one has written that by now.
If the phosphor is ok, there should be a good chance to restore the gun and grids, which ever needs help.
I didn't do that myself, have no equipment to do it, but i talked to people who did.
One of the pros will surely answer to that.
Where are located?
Regards, Julian
PS: As i sad: If i were you, i would not care too much about projectors now.
As you move to a new house, there will be plenty of other work to do
and more possibilities to spend money than you can count on both hands.
I would wait with the home cinema until the important things are done.
But don't forget to plan.
A good set of video, audio and power cables in the wall will help you more now than
deciding for / against the marquee.
If the house is ready to move in, buy /build a screen and install sound and the Marquee
(first on the table). If you want to keep it (later) hang it on the ceiling or buy another projector if not.
Go the cheap and easy way without making a decision you could regret later.
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Marquee 9500U edgeblend P43 | NEC 9PG
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the big E
Joined: 20 Apr 2013
Posts: 1928
Location: speedwell Tn.
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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I am with he others about keeping the 8500
Also why does some knock the 8 inch sets I converted my 9500 from a 8110 and other then the lc optics and brightness there really isn't much difference except in the resolving of the tube(FYI I can see scan lines at 720p on my dwin when I use it when gameing on it)
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crt king of black
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jbmeyer13
Joined: 03 Dec 2010
Posts: 1135
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="tschaeikaei"]Maybe that blue tube has a failure on one grid? There are people here, who can repair a tube.
I wonder why no one has written that by now.
quote]
Probably because of the cost. By the time he removes the tube, packs it up, pays for shipping and materials and then the tech spends time to diagnose and repair the tube it's not going to be much less than buying a new one.
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the big E
Joined: 20 Apr 2013
Posts: 1928
Location: speedwell Tn.
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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^^ I agree
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crt king of black
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tschaeikaei
Joined: 08 Apr 2013
Posts: 490
Location: Germany/Saarland
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Probably because of the cost. By the time he removes the tube, packs it up, pays for shipping and materials and then the tech spends time to diagnose and repair the tube it's not going to be much less than buying a new one. |
Thats just sad to hear.
Maybe a nice forum collegue will do it for less.
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Marquee 9500U edgeblend P43 | NEC 9PG
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| jbmeyer13 wrote: | | Probably because of the cost. By the time he removes the tube, packs it up, pays for shipping and materials and then the tech spends time to diagnose and repair the tube it's not going to be much less than buying a new one. |
where would you buy a new one anyway? Probably nothing wrong with the tube, it's more than likely on the VIM or neck-board. I think Tim's advice was solid
| Tim in Phoenix wrote: | Hello
Do have streaking on blue? Try swapping neck-boards. I have never seen a 180DMB22 just go blurry on its own |
Usually it's the green channel that goes blurry first, but if it was one of those machines that displayed a Windows desktop for 40K hours then highly likely the blue neck-board. It can be re-built or just as cheaply replaced.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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He states in his OP that a tech set up the PJ. Maybe the blue tube was purposely defocused for a good greyscale. Sounds like he is not knowledgeable with CRT set up and might not realize blue needs defocusing. He also had it set for 720p and they will do 1080p or at least 1080i which looks better than 720p from my experience .
If it is blurry beyond the normal defocusing it might be the cooling chamber glycol has went cloudy, I have seen it on a red AC tube
i had before.
oops, miss read his post, he said has the tech moved so far ahead, i read it as the tech moved far away ! Doh!!!!! 
Athanasios
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Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
Last edited by Nashou66 on Fri May 23, 2014 7:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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jbmeyer13
Joined: 03 Dec 2010
Posts: 1135
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | where would you buy a new one anyway? Probably nothing wrong with the tube, it's more than likely on the VIM or neck-board. I think Tim's advice was solid
| Tim in Phoenix wrote: | Hello
Do have streaking on blue? Try swapping neck-boards. I have never seen a 180DMB22 just go blurry on its own |
Usually it's the green channel that goes blurry first, but if it was one of those machines that displayed a Windows desktop for 40K hours then highly likely the blue neck-board. It can be re-built or just as cheaply replaced. |
Both Curt and Tim have tubes. I'm sure he could find either a new or lightly used tube if need be; hell I just sold a minty blue plug and play tube with full stainless hardware to another forum member quite inexpensively.
From the OP response I understood he already tried diagnosing and making various adjustments with no luck. Would be great if it were the VIM or VNB because that would be super easy to resolve.
I think it's been a while since the OP chimed in so who knows if he's even still considering any of this
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Elf Six
Joined: 24 Jan 2014
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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Hi guys, just been away for the day:)
I have changed tubes several times over the years on different pjs(including the Marquee)
The comment regarding the glycol sort of seem...very plausible. That would probably be something
I would be willing to look into 
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the big E
Joined: 20 Apr 2013
Posts: 1928
Location: speedwell Tn.
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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I also would look and see if the gylcol has got gunk in it or has got cloudy(mine has done the later)
Both just involve remove the tube and flushing and refilling with fresh glycol
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crt king of black
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Elf Six
Joined: 24 Jan 2014
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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..by the way, it's not the VNB. Tried that already
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the big E
Joined: 20 Apr 2013
Posts: 1928
Location: speedwell Tn.
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Elf Six wrote: | | ..by the way, it's not the VNB. Tried that already |
Take a led flashlight and peek in the lens and see if the glycol is clear or not
If its not clear then it would need to be flushed and filled with fresh glycol(cheap)
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crt king of black
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thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 1311
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | | jbmeyer13 wrote: | | Probably because of the cost. By the time he removes the tube, packs it up, pays for shipping and materials and then the tech spends time to diagnose and repair the tube it's not going to be much less than buying a new one. |
where would you buy a new one anyway? Probably nothing wrong with the tube, it's more than likely on the VIM or neck-board. I think Tim's advice was solid
| Tim in Phoenix wrote: | Hello
Do have streaking on blue? Try swapping neck-boards. I have never seen a 180DMB22 just go blurry on its own |
Usually it's the green channel that goes blurry first, but if it was one of those machines that displayed a Windows desktop for 40K hours then highly likely the blue neck-board. It can be re-built or just as cheaply replaced. |
My blue, and the old one that I'm still using, suddenly become VERY blurry indeed at one point. We are talking silly blurry here, like 1-2 inches thick grid patterns. Never got around to solve it.. because at some point it solved itself on its own. I was doing some cleaning of the boards, as recommended, and at some point the neck boards were off, but never cleaned them at all as they looked al right, so that leaves me with the conclusion, that removing cords here and there is what caused my blue to go all nuts. Although, removing chips on the CLM is also a factor on my part.
That said: Clean as many boards as you can, as I have been told over and over before I should do, solved it for me and it might just do it for you to.
As a mater of fact, cleaning my own HVPS might just improve on my drifting, come to think of it. Ok, maybe not, but still needs to be done.
Hour data: CRT ON: 16585 - In standby: 34518
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Elf Six wrote: | | ..by the way, it's not the VNB. Tried that already |
ok then
swap the Red and blue leads on the focus board, see if the problem follows
or
swap the red and blue leads on the VIM module, the ones on top when you slide the VIM 2/3rds of the way out of it's slot. I see you have many Color correction boards so I'm sure you tried that.
If it's not the focus board or the VIM circuit (blue has a special Color tracking circuit to help minimize non-linearity with R & G), then I would start to suspect the tube
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