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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 7:01 pm Post subject: Philip Seymour Hoffman found dead with needle in arm |
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http://nypost.com/2014/02/02/philip-seymour-hoffman-found-dead-in-his-apartment/
Oscar-winning actor Philip Seymour Hoffman was found dead of an apparent drug overdose — in the bathroom with a hypodermic needle still in his arm — inside a Greenwich Village home on Sunday morning, cops said.
A personal assistant found Hoffman’s body in an apartment at 35 Bethune St. and called 911 around 11:30 a.m, sources said.
Cops are at the scene and are investigating, sources said.
In 2006, Hoffman publicly admitted that he nearly succumbed to substance abuse graduating from NYU’s drama school, but got sober in rehab.
“It was all that (drugs and alcohol), yeah. It was anything I could get my hands on…I liked it all,” he told “60 Minutes” as the time.
Last year, Hoffman reportedly checked himself into rehab again for ten days after relapsing in 2012.
TMZ said he began using prescription pills, then snorted heroin for about a week before realizing he needed help.
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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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Sigh. Yet another extremely talented individual whose life was ended by using drugs. Notice I didn't say his life was ended by "abusing drugs". Doing drugs shouldn't be called "drug abuse", it should be called "body abuse".
This is where I break with libertarians. Yeah, freedom to do drugs sure is great. NOT.
Yet another in a long series of successful, talented actors, musicians, and entertainers whose lives were (literally) destroyed by drugs.
How sad.
SC
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 1311
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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That's very sad news. I remember him mostly for his comedy roles, but he was great in whatever he did. Typical for a true genuine actor/actress I suppose. In tribute I will see The Ides of March and A Late Quartet during the week.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmiOAyNZ7RU
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El Duderino
Joined: 23 Jan 2011
Posts: 4653
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | | This is where I break with libertarians. Yeah, freedom to do drugs sure is great. NOT. |
Interesting. Personal Property Rights and Self-Ownership seems a basic libertarian tenet. I can't think of a better example of personal property than ones own body.
Note I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, I just find it interesting you consider yourself a libertarian and break with a basic libertarian tenet. I do the same with anarchy. Philosophically it makes some sense to me. Practically I don't think it works. Both seem to need humanity as basically being good, and I'm not convinced of that, practically.
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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
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Location: Utah
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| Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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| El Duderino wrote: | | ecrabb wrote: | | This is where I break with libertarians. Yeah, freedom to do drugs sure is great. NOT. |
Interesting. Personal Property Rights and Self-Ownership seems a basic libertarian tenet. I can't think of a better example of personal property than ones own body. |
See, as a very libertarian-minded individual, I completely agree with that tenet. Fundamentally and theoretically, I'm totally on board.
If I could wave my magic wand, we'd absolutely live in a world where we were all as free as possible, and we could each do anything we desired to make ourselves happy, as long as it didn't infringe on the rights of another to do the same.
In reality though, we live in a society much different than that. We pay for each other's behaviors in a plethora of ways. Since we've collectively decided we'll support each other in this very interconnected society (healthcare, insurance, taxes, price of goods and services, etc.), then my desire for big-picture personal freedom is over-ridden by my less-theoretical desire to have my own personal freedom from paying for others' irresponsible behavior, so I feel compelled to make people live by rules, rules which I would otherwise not care for.
I'll put it a different way: Fundamentally, I believe anybody should be able to absolutely anything they want in their privacy of their own home, provided it doesn't endanger or harm anyone else. However, it's essentially impossible for somebody to do heroin or crack in the privacy of their own home without the very real possibility that they'll harm or kill themselves, and society (i.e. me) will incur a very real cost to take care of them in some way, i.e. rehabilitation, first responders, theft to support their habit, incarceration, body/property disposal, etc.
Does that make sense?
I don't think there's any perfect solution.
SC
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El Duderino
Joined: 23 Jan 2011
Posts: 4653
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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What if his intent was suicide? Does one own that right? To be, or not to be?
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 3:59 am Post subject: |
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| El Duderino wrote: | | What if his intent was suicide? Does one own that right? To be, or not to be? |
No, because... Your life... You didn't build that. You owe everybody else. You gotta get out there and work and pay your taxes. It's not fair to everybody to just bail on your responsibilities. 
SC
Last edited by ecrabb on Mon Feb 03, 2014 4:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:03 am Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | | El Duderino wrote: | | ecrabb wrote: | | This is where I break with libertarians. Yeah, freedom to do drugs sure is great. NOT. |
Interesting. Personal Property Rights and Self-Ownership seems a basic libertarian tenet. I can't think of a better example of personal property than ones own body. |
See, as a very libertarian-minded individual, I completely agree with that tenet. Fundamentally and theoretically, I'm totally on board.
If I could wave my magic wand, we'd absolutely live in a world where we were all as free as possible, and we could each do anything we desired to make ourselves happy, as long as it didn't infringe on the rights of another to do the same.
In reality though, we live in a society much different than that. We pay for each other's behaviors in a plethora of ways. Since we've collectively decided we'll support each other in this very interconnected society (healthcare, insurance, taxes, price of goods and services, etc.), then my desire for big-picture personal freedom is over-ridden by my less-theoretical desire to have my own personal freedom from paying for others' irresponsible behavior, so I feel compelled to make people live by rules, rules which I would otherwise not care for.
I'll put it a different way: Fundamentally, I believe anybody should be able to absolutely anything they want in their privacy of their own home, provided it doesn't endanger or harm anyone else. However, it's essentially impossible for somebody to do heroin or crack in the privacy of their own home without the very real possibility that they'll harm or kill themselves, and society (i.e. me) will incur a very real cost to take care of them in some way, i.e. rehabilitation, first responders, theft to support their habit, incarceration, body/property disposal, etc.
Does that make sense?
I don't think there's any perfect solution.
SC |
While I agree, why isn't alcohol more strongly regulated? We could even extend this to food choices.
| ecrabb wrote: | | El Duderino wrote: | | What if his intent was suicide? Does one own that right? To be, or not to be? |
No, because... Your life... You didn't build that. You owe everybody else. You gotta get out there and work and pay your taxes. It's not fair to everybody to just bail on your responsibilities.
SC |
Sorry, I totally disagree with this. I have had this argument with my sister about quality or quantity of life. If you are going to make the case that you owe other people, you can't just go and have a lackadaisical attitude about health, fitness and diet.
It is funny that I just had this discussion with my best friend last week. He is always saying you have a choice, so I went at him with the ultimate decision. He was caught off guard and backpedaled, but is probably closer to Crabb. While not saying one can choose to die or not, he did say one shouldn't choose to end their life if someone relies on that person. That someone could be a child or spouse. One could easily take that out to society in general.
Personally, I think one should be able to choose when to die. It is their life and they should be able to end it when or if they so desire.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:24 am Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | Notice I didn't say his life was ended by "abusing drugs". Doing drugs shouldn't be called "drug abuse", it should be called "body abuse".
SC |
Makes perfect sense...abusing drugs should be taking a legally prescribed medication not for the purpose it was prescribed and for the individual it was prescribed to. Or taking any prescribed medication for recreational purposes (mood changing).
And I also like what you said about "body abuse"
Consuming any drug knowing it can cause death or health issues is not abusing the drug itself, I would include the mind also (mind and body).
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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paw
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 1176
Location: Arvada, CO
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| Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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Like everything in life, we should have government in moderation. The real question is how much is too much? AAAA! There's the rub!
SC
I sent you a PM on a different topic.
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