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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | | garyfritz wrote: | | I thought somebody (Crabb? Kal?) said the recent JVC generations used a better bulb that dimmed very little. Didn't somebody say you could keep a steady light output for upwards of 2000 hours -- on econ mode -- just by adjusting the iris? So the bulb is effectively 100% usable at full desired output until it pops? |
kals is suppose to have a new type lamp and ballast assembly for longer lasting. |
Exactly, Mac.
I wouldn't quite say it that way though, Gary. I would say that starting with Kal's generation of machine, most people will probably be able to continue to get brightness which is reasonably comparable to where they started, on a modest-sized screen (something in the ballpark of Kal's or mine - 8-footish wide), for most of the lamp's life, which will probably be in the 2000-hour ball-park, give or take.
I know that's a lot of qualification, but it's a very inexact subject. Lots of variables that make it very difficult to state anything quantitative.
The previous generation of JVC (mine) was notorious for short lamp life-spans, and early dimming, as in unacceptable dimming the first 200-300 hours and lamp failure at less than 500. JVC took care of most of them, but there was clearly an issue. Of course, it's also important to remember with the whole forum thing that there could be 20 projectors like mine out in the field working perfectly (that nobody ever posts about) for every one that somebody posted about on AVS with an issue. That won't make you feel any better if you're one of the 5%, but it's something to consider.
I'll keep watching my brightness, but I think it's pretty unlikely at this point I won't make it to at least a thousand hours.
SC
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digitalayon
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 921
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| Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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All of this new technology and I still love my CRT. It is fun getting a great picture for a cheap price. That is why I love it so much. Seeing what can be tweaked for cheap. The fun is tinkering. Nothing wrong with going digital either...you guys keep me employed when you do. But there is a level of fun factor involved. Especially with winter hanging around another 2 months and then I abandon ship and hit the links. I started with a Runco 933 4 years ago (ok vidimagic in 85). Then went to a 1208s/2 3 years ago. Then last year went to a mint Vidkron Vision 1 and spent no more than 115 bucks for all three over than time. To me that is the fun factor in this. I am adding a Moome card this week. It's costing me 50 bucks and have to take it from a 8500 but still part of the fun. I will pay 5 bucks more for that 8500 than I did the VV1. It will cost me 5 times the amount to have the mods done to the boards. But so be it. It is still way way cheaper than going with a 8 grand JVC. And its fun!!
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | | First, I think most guys pull their working lamp and shelve it because light output has dropped to a point where they'd prefer to have more brightness back. |
Ah! Of course. Didn't think of that. The lamp is basically too low but could still serve as a backup in pinch I suppose like you said.
[quote[For me, I'd rather not have $350 tied up in a lamp just sitting on the shelf when I could just wait until around 1000 or 1200 hours and replace it then.[/quote]
Sure, but what if something happens (say a bad bulb) and it dies at 500 hrs? Warranty may cover the replacement but I wouldn't want to wait for JVC to send me a new one as I'm assuming it could take weeks.
| Quote: | | There's another element to this, too. It's always been my understanding that if you run the lamp until it explodes, you always run the risk of damaging light engine optics. The point of the housing is of course to prevent that from happening, but I'd rather not risk it, personally. The primary function of the "replace lamp" warning in these projectors is so you can do so before the lamp explodes. Perhaps Mac can elaborate, but I don't think it's a good practice to run the lamp until it explodes. |
I didn't know they actually explode. Is that usually the case? They don't just burn out like an incandescent bulb? I guess not as looking in the manual for my RS56 it states: "An ultra-high pressure mercury lamp with a high internal pressure is used in the projector. Due to the characteristics of this lamp, it may blow out with a loud noise or go out when it is subject to shock or after using for a prolonged period of time (the time before the lamp blows out or goes out varies considerably with each lamp as well as the operating conditions)."
I also didn't know that they had a message that appears after X hours telling you to replace the lamp. Looking at my RS56 manual again it says that the "Lamp replacement" message will appear at 2900 hours even though the manual states that in low lamp mode you should get approx 4000 hours out of a bulb. Interesting. I learn something new every day. 
| Quote: | | To me, running the lamp until it explodes is tantamount to running tires until they turn bald and blowout. Yeah, you'll maximize ROI on your tires, but at some point well before the blowout, the tire's performance will have degraded to a point which is unacceptable, and worse, the failure when it does come could be catastrophic. |
Agreed! If the light output on mine's still ok at 2900 hrs, It's coming out anyway...
Kal
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My basement/HT/bar/brewery build 2.0
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| digitalayon wrote: | | All of this new technology and I still love my CRT. It is fun getting a great picture for a cheap price. That is why I love it so much. Seeing what can be tweaked for cheap. The fun is tinkering. Nothing wrong with going digital either...you guys keep me employed when you do. But there is a level of fun factor involved. Especially with winter hanging around another 2 months and then I abandon ship and hit the links. I started with a Runco 933 4 years ago (ok vidimagic in 85). Then went to a 1208s/2 3 years ago. Then last year went to a mint Vidkron Vision 1 and spent no more than 115 bucks for all three over than time. To me that is the fun factor in this. I am adding a Moome card this week. It's costing me 50 bucks and have to take it from a 8500 but still part of the fun. I will pay 5 bucks more for that 8500 than I did the VV1. It will cost me 5 times the amount to have the mods done to the boards. But so be it. It is still way way cheaper than going with a 8 grand JVC. And its fun!! |
There are no 'wrong' choices when it comes to what one finds fun or interesting. For one person, the tinkering is the fun. For another, it's watching the movies. One guy loves video and couldn't care less about speakers, while another doesn't care that much about the video and is nuts for audio.
Personally, I got over the tinkering when I had a wife, two kids, and a full-time-plus job. There are about 50 other things I'd rather spend my time on than tinkering with a CRT projector. But, I totally get why others do.
I had close to $1500 in my G70 when you include analog switching, cabling, HD Fury, and gamma correction. I bought my JVC for $2200 as a B-stock machine, so in my mind, there's not a large difference between the two. That equation has certainly changed, though. When I was looking a few years ago, good nine-inch machines were still a couple grand. It appears that if you're patient, you can now find good 9-inch machines for under $500, or even less if you're willing to drive. That is definitely an outstanding value if you're willing to put the time and effort into it.
SC
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | | Personally, I got over the tinkering when I had a wife, two kids, and a full-time-plus job. There are about 50 other things I'd rather spend my time on than tinkering with a CRT projector. But, I totally get why others do. |
Yup. Different strokes for different folks. Like SC I have zero interest in tweaking and adjusting my HT but understand that some people enjoy it more than the movies themselves. No right or wrong answer here.
With my first projector (Barco 800) tweaking was a necessary evil as the thing was somewhat unstable (until I completely recapped it). I was happy with Zenith 1200 that came next as it was very stable, likely because I was the first and original owner (0 hours). Same with my digital JVC RS56. From the 400 to 1000 hour time period on the digital's lamp, I've only had to open up the iris one notch to compensate for lower light output (measured using a light meter). In fact that one notch in iris difference actually put the light output at 1000 hrs slightly higher than what it was at 400 hrs.
I'm getting just under 11 ftL on my ~1.1 gain 8 foot wide screen which I find plenty bright given the darkness of the room. I'm at an iris of -5 (itgoes from -15 to 0 where 0=brightest). So there's a ways to go. If I have to go to high lamp mode before I hit 2900 hrs I'll probably change the bulb as high lamp mode's too noisy (IMHO) - we'll see what happens.
macgyver655: If you think some people are posting incorrect information and/or are confusing the issue, by all means post away and tell us why. Telling everyone that "some things are not accurate" and that you're "not even going to respond" doesn't help anyone and is pointless.
Kal
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My basement/HT/bar/brewery build 2.0
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: |
macgyver655: If you think some people are posting incorrect information and/or are confusing the issue, by all means post away and tell us why. Telling everyone that "some things are not accurate" and that you're "not even going to respond" doesn't help anyone and is pointless.
Kal |
Yep, I'm sure your right.
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digitalayon
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 921
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| Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: |
yes, the blue on green with red and blue leds was one I heard and the other was blue on yellow for white with no leds. |
Exactly....and those types will be by whatever the manufacturer decides to go with.
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digitalayon
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 921
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| Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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Guys....they DO EXPLODE! Most projectors will have a warning to replace the bulb. but it goes off of a meter that you reset when you replace the bulb. Many times people (done it once myself) ignore the "replace bulb warning" and try to see how much more they can get out of the bulb. Sadly this is a bad move because it can often take out the whole projector. And most are just one board and has to be thrown out.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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Digitalayon - I forgot it was you who was in the industry. I remembered it was somebody here, but couldn't remember who. 
Interesting. I knew about laser, and I knew about LED, but didn't know about this "hybrid" laser/phosphor approach. Yay, more $2 moving parts to fail to make a whole projector inop.
That PDF you posted is dated fall '12, so it looks like it's really only about a year old. Of course, it's written from Hitachi's point of view, who is using traditional lamps, so it's cold on LED and on this "hybrid" approach.
This is why I love threads like this. Fun to learn about stuff.
SC
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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My info was from Sony and Panasonic so there are a few involved in this venture.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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digitalayon
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 921
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| Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | | My info was from Sony and Panasonic so there are a few involved in this venture. |
My info is on them as well but R&D will not elaborate!...realm of secrecy I guess!!! 
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digitalayon
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 921
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| Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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What is funny is how "old school" gets used(phosphor) to extend life of newer technology.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | | There is another company called Prysm that uses it in a rear tech platform for multi wall displays with lasers as well. the panels are like traditional CRT television displays. |
Saw the Prysm stuff at Infocomm last summer and they were very impressive-looking. I suppose it doesn't have any use in front projection, but it's a neat technology. You're right that it's very similar to a traditional CRT tube in how it works… It's just a laser instead of an electron beam.
The display they had at Infocomm was very large, and it was really beautiful at that size. If anybody is interested, I can dig up a couple of the photos I took. Cool stuff.
SC
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digitalayon
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 921
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| Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | | Nashou66 wrote: | | There is another company called Prysm that uses it in a rear tech platform for multi wall displays with lasers as well. the panels are like traditional CRT television displays. |
Saw the Prysm stuff at Infocomm last summer and they were very impressive-looking. I suppose it doesn't have any use in front projection, but it's a neat technology. You're right that it's very similar to a traditional CRT tube in how it works… It's just a laser instead of an electron beam.
The display they had at Infocomm was very large, and it was really beautiful at that size. If anybody is interested, I can dig up a couple of the photos I took. Cool stuff.
SC |
You have to ask?.... Hell YEAH!!! POST THEM PUPPIES!!!
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digitalayon
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 921
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| Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: |
Interesting. I knew about laser, and I knew about LED, but didn't know about this "hybrid" laser/phosphor approach. Yay, more $2 moving parts to fail to make a whole projector inop.
SC |
Hey....layoff of the moving part mess. I used to think that but lately when you have solid state hard drives all dying in droves, the old school spinning type are suddenly more sexy.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| digitalayon wrote: | | ecrabb wrote: |
Interesting. I knew about laser, and I knew about LED, but didn't know about this "hybrid" laser/phosphor approach. Yay, more $2 moving parts to fail to make a whole projector inop.
SC |
Hey....layoff of the moving part mess. I used to think that but lately when you have solid state hard drives all dying in droves, the old school spinning type are suddenly more sexy. |
Seagate called and left a message for you. Didn't sound sexy. At all.
SC
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