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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:43 am Post subject: Help me Crabb. You're my only hope |
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http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?ff3=4&pub=5574906687&toolid=10001&campid=5336656890&customid=&mpre=http%3A%2F%2Fstores.ebay.com%2FJVCPROSTORE%3F_rdc%3D1
Link modified to support our forum - thank you!
I had my finger on the trigger after I just got my big check from the Fontainebleau Friday. $2300 for last years RS46 isn't an unbelievable price, but it is still pretty good. $3200 for the 4k is also pretty good although I have heard AVS is selling the 4910 for $3800.
I hate to say this to CRT faithful, but I am close to leaving. I love CRT, but the new DI JVCs have pretty much matched the on/off cr. Not wanting to install the beast on my living room ceiling means probably behind the couch. I can't even fathom how ugly that is going to look.  The JVC would be a lot easier to install and live with aesthetically.
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Mr. Green
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 1394
Location: Calgary
TV/Projector: Marquee 9501LC / NEC 9PG+
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| Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:12 am Post subject: |
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Every time I'm offline for a couple months I notice there's a couple less people around when I get back here. I hope those that move away will at least stick around to post from time to time.
That looks like a pretty sweet projector. Lamp life has always been an issue for me, but 4000 hrs in normal mode is more than acceptable to me (so long as the lamps aren't $400 each). I was always told to expect about half life (due to dimming, failure, etc...) from the high output bulbs so an expectation of 2,000 hrs+ is good enough to me. I see they still only give 90 days or 300 hrs warranty on them. For the joy of watching big screen it would be worth it to me to pay up to $10/mo ($240 every 2 yrs) for a new bulb. I do wish bulb prices were lower though. I would probably look for a deal there the toss in a spare bulb for free (or just buy a spare at time of purchase). Wouldn't want to be watching a big game just to have it fail at an inoportune moment.
Having said that, I've got the big marquee and a bunch of parts I want to install so I'll be using mine for a good while yet. I still can't believe the old 1995 NEC 9PG+ fired up after sitting doing nothing for over 3 years and it was even moved twice. Talk about longevity.
I'd say get one, keep your CRT and see what happens. If you decide after a few months you aren't even thinking about the 3 eye'd beast; it's time for it to move on.
Maybe we should get a group buy of 50 units through Curt. lol
_________________
You can be young only once but, you can be immature forever.
Current Projector Marquee9501LC with PS3 (BLu-Ray) at 1080P LOVE IT! Screen is an Elunevision 120" 4:3 (2.4 gain - no hotspots). (also own a NEC 9PG+)
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: | | Strange, I thought the new line of JVC bulbs came with 1 year / 1000 hour warranty now. (?) |
I was pretty surprised to see when I looked at the brochure for the new line just now, this line:
| Quote: | | NSH 230W (lamp life: approx. 4,000 hours when the lamp is in Low mode) |
http://resources.jvc.com/Resources/00/01/56/15652.PDF
Warranty information isn't included in any of the materials I could find, other than in the brochure where it says there's a general 3-year warranty on parts/labor on the projector.
I'd expect to get at a couple thousand hours out of this latest generation before you'd want to change the lamp. This assumes the projector isn't run in very warm temps, the filter is kept clean, and you're not turning it on and off multiples times per day, every day.
So, if you use a projector like me, you'll have to put a $350 bulb in the projector every 2 or 3 years. Personally, I don't think that's all that bad.
I'm hoping in a few years, newer light source technology (like LED) will eventually replace lamps.
SC
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr. Green wrote: | | That looks like a pretty sweet projector. Lamp life has always been an issue for me, but 4000 hrs in normal mode is more than acceptable to me (so long as the lamps aren't $400 each). I was always told to expect about half life (due to dimming, failure, etc...) from the high output bulbs so an expectation of 2,000 hrs+ is good enough to me. I see they still only give 90 days or 300 hrs warranty on them. For the joy of watching big screen it would be worth it to me to pay up to $10/mo ($240 every 2 yrs) for a new bulb. |
The JVC lamps are more like $300 to $350. I'm at 750 hours now, and will probably be at 1000 hours about when I hit my 2-year ownership mark. Sounds like your usage is almost double mine, so I think you could expect to replace a bulb every two years. At $350, you're talking about $15/mo for lamp. With kind of usage you're talking about, you're probably talking about $1.50 per movie.
| Mr. Green wrote: | | I do wish bulb prices were lower though. I would probably look for a deal there the toss in a spare bulb for free (or just buy a spare at time of purchase). Wouldn't want to be watching a big game just to have it fail at an inoportune moment. |
What most guys do is pull their first lamp a little prematurely and throw it on the shelf so you have a spare. That's what I plan to do. I'll probably pull mine at 1000 hours since my generation of JVC has a bit of a reputation. That way, I'll have an emergency spare, and/or a spare to sell with the projector.
I think the "high bulb prices" sentiment by the CRT crowd is a little misplaced, personally. A good, new, fresh set of 9-inch tubes for the longest time was a couple grand to retube a set. If a set of tubes lasted 10,000 hours, that's going to be around 25 cents/hour, or around 50 cents per two-hour movie.
But, just like the digital dims over time, the CRT will get harder and harder to calibrate, get good color balance, and of course there's the risk of burn with games or narrower/wider aspect ratios.
If you've got a bunch of spares you bought cheap, then there's no comparison.
SC
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digitalayon
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 921
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| Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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Spanky....wait 1 more year.....it will be worth it!! They are changing to a different bulb configuration. They are going to a 20,000 hour bulb made from....wait for it........PHOSPHOR!!!....it utilizes a laser directly at the phosphor. And Crabbs JVC CANNOT be converted. But this could drop the price of older LCOS machines like his but the thought of the bulb lasting that long is a no brainer.
On a side note....I am sure VDC would have like to have had this info before closing up shop. That phosphor machine could have been great in say 5 years from now when bulbs are needing replacement.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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Do you have any sources for that, Digitalayon? I talk to people in the industry pretty regularly and I haven't heard a peep about a brand new light source; especially one that sounds (fundamentally speaking) like fluorescent. Not saying you're wrong, but if it's only a single generation away, I'd think we'd have all heard about it by now.
SC
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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I have read some on the phosphor lamp but have not heard of JVC going to use it. Of course if it is a successful option then why not. AND, VDC has been experimenting with this lamp for some time now but in the digital realm.
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | | I'd expect to get at a couple thousand hours out of this latest generation before you'd want to change the lamp. This assumes the projector isn't run in very warm temps, the filter is kept clean, and you're not turning it on and off multiples times per day, every day. |
Mine should do the same too as well. My basement's at 68F, air is well circulated, and the projector gets turned on/off maximum of once a day and is on for a minimum of 2 hours when used (more often ~3-4). I do 1000 hrs/year.
Funny enough, I've yet to find any dust or anything in my filter. I checked it after a few days of use, then after a couple of weeks, then after a couple of months. Last time I checked it had been 4-6 months and there's still absolutely nothing on it, not even a very fine layer of silt or anything. The low-pile industrial carpet we use in the basement probably helps (along with very little traffic in and around the second row of seating below the projector).
| Quote: | | So, if you use a projector like me, you'll have to put a $350 bulb in the projector every 2 or 3 years. Personally, I don't think that's all that bad. |
Agreed.
| ecrabb wrote: | | What most guys do is pull their first lamp a little prematurely and throw it on the shelf so you have a spare. That's what I plan to do. I'll probably pull mine at 1000 hours since my generation of JVC has a bit of a reputation. That way, I'll have an emergency spare, and/or a spare to sell with the projector. |
I'm trying to understand why someone would pull it before it pops? To be able to pull it at 1000 hrs you need a spare anyway, so why not have the spare sit on a shelf and only install it when the first one pops? I did buy a spare and it's been sitting in the back room waiting... I wasn't planning on pulling it until the current one pops.
| ecrabb wrote: | I think the "high bulb prices" sentiment by the CRT crowd is a little misplaced, personally. A good, new, fresh set of 9-inch tubes for the longest time was a couple grand to retube a set. If a set of tubes lasted 10,000 hours, that's going to be around 25 cents/hour, or around 50 cents per two-hour movie.
But, just like the digital dims over time, the CRT will get harder and harder to calibrate, get good color balance, and of course there's the risk of burn with games or narrower/wider aspect ratios.
If you've got a bunch of spares you bought cheap, then there's no comparison. |
Keep in mind too that most people have no idea how to change a CRT tube - it's considerably more complex than changing a bulb and (should) involve a lot more setup work once completed above and beyond just the brightness/contrast/greyscale/colour setup that you also get with digitals when changing a bulb. With the CRT you pretty much to redo magnetics/astig/geometry/convergence (or at least touch them up).
In most cases the CRT projector should be taken down too before changing a tube (especially if it's the first time you're doing it). I certainly didn't relish the idea of changing the tubes on mine at all, and knew in the back of my head if I was going to take it down it probably wasn't going to go back up.
Kal
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My basement/HT/bar/brewery build 2.0
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digitalayon
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 921
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| Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | Do you have any sources for that, Digitalayon? I talk to people in the industry pretty regularly and I haven't heard a peep about a brand new light source; especially one that sounds (fundamentally speaking) like fluorescent. Not saying you're wrong, but if it's only a single generation away, I'd think we'd have all heard about it by now.
SC |
Dude...you forget where your polarizer assembly on your JVC was made!!!!....Most 3LCD and LCOS manufacturers will be going this route according to our R and D guys that work with the industry. And you pretty much will not hear much on it until it is out. That is how they keep current prices for current stuff inflated. Hell....we do that....Just ask Real D!!! LOL
If I can get you any more info, I will!
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| digitalayon wrote: | | ecrabb wrote: | Do you have any sources for that, Digitalayon? I talk to people in the industry pretty regularly and I haven't heard a peep about a brand new light source; especially one that sounds (fundamentally speaking) like fluorescent. Not saying you're wrong, but if it's only a single generation away, I'd think we'd have all heard about it by now.
SC |
Dude...you forget where your polarizer assembly on your JVC was made!!!!....Most 3LCD and LCOS manufacturers will be going this route according to our R and D guys that work with the industry. And you pretty much will not hear much on it until it is out. That is how they keep current prices for current stuff inflated. Hell....we do that....Just ask Real D!!! LOL
If I can get you any more info, I will! |
Which route are you hearing. I know of 2 options.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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Please lets not bring CRTs into this thread. I'm tired of these debates.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | | Please lets not bring CRTs into this thread. I'm tired of these debates. |
Nobody "brought CRTs into the thread", Mac. Spanky (the OP) has several CRTs on deck, he has a new place he's rehabbing, and is considering whether he should stick with CRT or go digital. The whole point of the thread is somebody considering the pluses and minuses of a new projector over what he has.
As long as the discussion remains courteous, and focused on facts, it should be informative and interesting. The situation is different every year as people's needs and wants evolve, the technology changes, and the digitals continue to get better (in several ways).
SC
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | | macgyver655 wrote: | | Please lets not bring CRTs into this thread. I'm tired of these debates. |
Nobody "brought CRTs into the thread", Mac. Spanky (the OP) has several CRTs on deck, he has a new place he's rehabbing, and is considering whether he should stick with CRT or go digital. The whole point of the thread is somebody considering the pluses and minuses of a new projector over what he has.
As long as the discussion remains courteous, and focused on facts, it should be informative and interesting. The situation is different every year as people's needs and wants evolve, the technology changes, and the digitals continue to get better (in several ways).
SC |
I am not even going to respond but there has clearly been some things posted that are not completely accurate. But I'm not going there so just drop it please.
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digitalayon
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 921
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digitalayon
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 921
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| Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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LOL...in all reality guys we brought DIGITAL'S into a CRT section.
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garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12088
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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I thought somebody (Crabb? Kal?) said the recent JVC generations used a better bulb that dimmed very little. Didn't somebody say you could keep a steady light output for upwards of 2000 hours -- on econ mode -- just by adjusting the iris? So the bulb is effectively 100% usable at full desired output until it pops?
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: | | ecrabb wrote: | | What most guys do is pull their first lamp a little prematurely and throw it on the shelf so you have a spare. That's what I plan to do. I'll probably pull mine at 1000 hours since my generation of JVC has a bit of a reputation. That way, I'll have an emergency spare, and/or a spare to sell with the projector. |
I'm trying to understand why someone would pull it before it pops? To be able to pull it at 1000 hrs you need a spare anyway, so why not have the spare sit on a shelf and only install it when the first one pops? I did buy a spare and it's been sitting in the back room waiting... I wasn't planning on pulling it until the current one pops. |
A couple of points on this, Kal…
First, I think most guys pull their working lamp and shelve it because light output has dropped to a point where they'd prefer to have more brightness back. This often happens long before the lamp explodes. So, you pull the lamp that's outputting well under 50% of its original light output and throw it on the shelf for a spare. A lamp with low light output is better than no lamp at all.
This probably isn't so much a concern for me as I'm still - at 750 hours on the original lamp - running with the iris completely closed. So, unless the lamp goes off the cliff in the next couple of months, I should easily make it to a thousand.
For me, I'd rather not have $350 tied up in a lamp just sitting on the shelf when I could just wait until around 1000 or 1200 hours and replace it then. As long as I do it early, I don't have to spend money to have a product just sitting on the shelf for the better part of a year or two (as in your case).
There's another element to this, too. It's always been my understanding that if you run the lamp until it explodes, you always run the risk of damaging light engine optics. The point of the housing is of course to prevent that from happening, but I'd rather not risk it, personally. The primary function of the "replace lamp" warning in these projectors is so you can do so before the lamp explodes. Perhaps Mac can elaborate, but I don't think it's a good practice to run the lamp until it explodes.
To me, running the lamp until it explodes is tantamount to running tires until they turn bald and blowout. Yeah, you'll maximize ROI on your tires, but at some point well before the blowout, the tire's performance will have degraded to a point which is unacceptable, and worse, the failure when it does come could be catastrophic.
Those are my thoughts on the subject.
SC
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| garyfritz wrote: | | I thought somebody (Crabb? Kal?) said the recent JVC generations used a better bulb that dimmed very little. Didn't somebody say you could keep a steady light output for upwards of 2000 hours -- on econ mode -- just by adjusting the iris? So the bulb is effectively 100% usable at full desired output until it pops? |
kals is suppose to have a new type lamp and ballast assembly for longer lasting.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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yes, the blue on green with red and blue leds was one I heard and the other was blue on yellow for white with no leds.
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