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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:58 pm Post subject: Back to CRT |
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In 2010 I stopped with my Marquee 8500 ultra and went LCOS. I had two JVC LCOS projectors, the HD1 and the HD350. The HD350 dyed because a pannel failed. Than I bought a Sony VW100 with Xenon bulb and somehow that projector was more fun and brought memories of the CRT time where there was just more 'wow' in the picture. Reasoning that the xenon bulb was very expensive that the energy used was 450 Watt for just the bulb and that the blacks where bad I realised that the UHP and Xenon time was over for me. I wanted to go back to the good old CRT time 
Now the biggest problem was the noise as I remembered that the Marquee 8500 ultra was not quiet. However someone found a solution for that problem and it was the splitpack projector. I have an attic where I could place the mainunit so the noise should be much less.
Now recently I found two great deals on the top of the line Barco projectors. A 809 from Curt and a Cine 9 elsewhere. In the rankings the 809 with the 9 inch tubes was going to be only just below the Cine 9 but I bought the Cine 9 because I needed new tubes and good lenses and color elements for the 809 and the Cine 9 came with it Now the 'problem' is that I will probable end up with two top projectors
One question about the 809 left is that I can find no documentation on it. On the label it says Barco graphics 809HS PFC and art. nr. R9202284 but even on the Barco site I could not find a thing. It clearly is a cine 8 with 9 inch tubes and LC. The videoboards seem to be 1209. I was wondering if he hscan and vscan would be less than a cine 9 because the 909/919 was higher than the cine 9.
Anyhow here are some pictures of the 809. Great projector. The noise is less than I remember form the Marquee, it is just a wind noise, I don't here the fans themselve and most of it comes form the mainunit that will be on the attic so this will be a very silent solution. And it is tempting to try and attach the tube housing of this 809 to the body of the upcoming Cine 9. I get the impression that the connectors and wires are exactly the same from watching the pictures.
A few pictures:
My HT with attic so the main unit can be on the attic and yes the holes form the Marquee mounting are still there covered with tape 
The Barco 809
Clearly more advanced than the 808s with smaller boards with SMD components
Beautifull LUG tubes horizontal oriented but with big logo burn
Last edited by redfox001 on Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:16 pm; edited 6 times in total
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks! I resized the pictures hope this is more readable
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, I've never found any documentation on the 809s either! It's basically a Cine 8 chassis coupled to 9" LUG tubes. The flight sims I work on sometimes use 908 sets, 8" tubes with 909 electronics.
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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Perhaps it is a custom made unit? Very very precious
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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Well, the Greek Air Force has 5 of them from me.
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:17 am Post subject: |
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I am very curious how good the picture will be and I will certainly compare it to the Cine 9. When I think of it it seems to me that with a good setup digital focus control or more zones should not have to make a big difference after all these are the same tubes.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:53 am Post subject: |
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| Curt Palme wrote: | | Well, the Greek Air Force has 5 of them from me. |
Should I call my Brother to go get them for you?
I still need to find out what ever happened to the 9 909's from the Thessaloniki
Science Museum my Cousins husband works at.
The replaced them with digital and they went into storage. He saw them in a storage room just stacked up.
Hmmm.
PS I hope Diddern doesn't se this thread
Nashou
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
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Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:59 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, that was the sale of 2012! Can't really post about it. Last I heard, the greek gov't still wanted something like $7500 ach (!) for their old carcasses..
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Decibel
Joined: 31 May 2007
Posts: 904
Location: Roma - Italia
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| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:52 am Post subject: |
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I'm going to greece ... fffffffffffffffffffffff
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Domenico (Barco fan!)
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:58 am Post subject: |
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By the way I got my Marquee 8500 ultra that had an excellent picture from a 3d simulation centre at the university in The Netherlands. They upgraded to something Cine 9 or 909 or perhaps 919. I asked if they had plans to upgrade again because it was 4/5 years ago (2009) when they sold the 8500 but they said they would remember me if they would make plans but not for now. Conclusion these high end CRT's are still the most wanted by the pro's
Last edited by redfox001 on Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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Split packs look real nice. When I saw the Marquee split pack, I meant to ask Scott if you could extend the cable length between the cases. I could probably live with a split pack on my ceiling.
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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So at this moment without lenses I can not get it further than this! And everything definately works fine
Now for the mounting!
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ElTopo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1640
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| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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Back to CRT = good descision
Drop in Elysium and enjoy 
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Barco Cine 9 the one and only
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fragzero
Joined: 30 Aug 2012
Posts: 344
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| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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Ran in to a little argument with the topicstarter (do not worry, still friendly)
I am correct saying that to do 1080p60 or 72 100% correct you need a marquee with the latest mike parker mods? A 909 is limited in bandwith but does come with sharper tubes, a better focus system and the best lenses, it will do 1080p decent but not perfectly right?
Mp?
stridsvognen?
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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This does get a little anoying. You are saying in all my threads that there are no 1080p CRT's exept for one model at Mike Parkers house. With that statement and no experience yourself you contradict every Barco statement about bandwidth and resolution. Perhaps you misunderstoood what is meant with perfect? Perhaps they talk about some very hardly visible noise? To all normal standards these 909 sets do 1080p@60. Don't know why I'm even arguing this.
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fragzero
Joined: 30 Aug 2012
Posts: 344
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| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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Well you said: A 9" crt can always do 1080p
a 1292 won't do 1080p
all the 9" es sets won't do 1080p
Most of the 9" EM sets will produce a very decent looking 1080p image but none of the sets havethe neccesary bandwith to produce true 1080p60.
What i meant with mike parkers projector is that he is just finishing up a new set of videomods, mods which offer unseen performance and only has the latest version (here is the info about these mods https://www.curtpalme.com/forum_archived/viewtopic.php@t=34966.html)
It might seem strange but yes, the specs in the barco manuals are not the reality.
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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Depends on what you are able to see at all Do yo wear glases? I have multifocus glases and even than I’m missing some details in the corners of my eyes.
As I said the video chain can always be improved thats why I bought the internal hdmi port card. Might be Mike has improved even further but to call Barco lyers depends on your standars. I mean Mike parker might have much higher standards than I do at this point of the hobby and most digital prohjetors generally have worse lenses so they don’t resolve everything ‘perfect’ as well.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| fragzero wrote: | Ran in to a little argument with the topicstarter (do not worry, still friendly)
I am correct saying that to do 1080p60 or 72 100% correct you need a marquee with the latest mike parker mods? A 909 is limited in bandwith but does come with sharper tubes, a better focus system and the best lenses, it will do 1080p decent but not perfectly right?
Mp?
stridsvognen? |
No, you are not correct saying that to do 1080p60 or 72 100% correct you need a marquee with the latest mike parker mods. That would imply there is an achievable "100% correct", and there is not.
When we talk about projectors and resolution and sharpness, we're talking about local contrast. Contrast, or sharpness, isn't binary, e.g. sharp/not sharp, but a range, a spectrum, so it's something you measure, objectively. That way is MTF, or modulation transfer function.
An MTF of 1.0 is "perfect". That's only theoretical though, because no projector on earth can achieve 1.0, most especially not a CRT. To come very, very close, you'd need to be talking about an extremely low resolution that none of us would use - like standard definition. With 1080p, even single-chip DLP projectors with expensive lenses top around .9 (or 90%). Good CRT projectors like 9-inch machines are all in the .5 (or 50% ballpark). Some are sharper than others. The 909 is apparently bandwidth-limited, but still good. The G90 apparently has a very complex (and noisy) video chain, but is still good. The MP-modded 9500's are supposedly best of the bunch, but I've never seen one. I've only seen G90, 909, and 9500 Ultra's in stock trim, so I can't comment on MP's mods.
Regardless, all those CRT projectors are all varying degrees of pretty damn sharp for a CRT, with some a little better, and some a little worse. The MP-9500 may be the sharpest of the bunch. But, I'll just point out that they're all significantly less sharp (lower MTF) than almost any digital. Of course, that lower MTF is something most CRT aficionados actually prefer. After all, who wants to look at near-perfectly sharp pixels?
ANSI contrast also affects our perception of sharpness. Almost any digital projector has much higher ANSI contrast than a CRT, and significantly higher MTF. That's where "digital sharpness" comes from. But some like more or less sharpness than others.
My JVC has a pretty good MTF (though not as good as some), but significantly lower ANSI contrast compared to some DLP projectors. But, that's one of the reasons I prefer JVC digital over a lot of other digital projectors… It's not too sharp, and a nice compromise between the "silky-smooth look" of CRT that I always liked and the too-sharp look of many digitals. I actually ever-so-slightly defocus my projector. I don't have any equipment to measure it, so I'm totally guessing, but my MTF is probably in the .8 (80%) ballpark.
Do a search on MTF, tse, lenses, and a few of the 9-inch CRT models, and you can turn up some older threads where the subject was discussed in some detail.
SC
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