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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | Diddern wrote: | | Full 4K 4096x2160 This is 4K |
Thanks.. Well im surprised that you dident even notice what Andreas was posting..
If i use those nr, it will be wrong, i need the H total x V total x framerate, and i doubt that 4K dont have any porch settings.
But i have to admit its fun.. I admire your confidence.. |
Read...
Do not need to be confident on facts.
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Diddern wrote: | Full 4K 4096x2160 This is 4K
And we do not know if it will be 24, 48, or 60 frames, but the upgrade on the VW1100 will manage all.
And not if it will be REC 2020 or what it will be. |
You better stop before you make a total joke of yourself..
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | Diddern wrote: | | Full 4K 4096x2160 This is 4K |
Thanks.. Well im surprised that you dident even notice what Andreas was posting..
If i use those nr, it will be wrong, i need the H total x V total x framerate, and i doubt that 4K dont have any porch settings.
But i have to admit its fun.. I admire your confidence.. |
Like I said I don't know the timings, but I was sure you with your superior knowledge would know or find out. And of coarse 4K has porch settings. 
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Andreas21 wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | Diddern wrote: | | Full 4K 4096x2160 This is 4K |
Thanks.. Well im surprised that you dident even notice what Andreas was posting..
If i use those nr, it will be wrong, i need the H total x V total x framerate, and i doubt that 4K dont have any porch settings.
But i have to admit its fun.. I admire your confidence.. |
Like I said I don't know the timings, but I was sure you with your superior knowledge would know or find out. And of coarse 4K has porch settings. |
I noticed your answer, Just wanted to let Diddern finish what he started.. Not having a clue about what porch settings. is, and the need to know them to calculate the bandwidth/ pixel clock.
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | Diddern wrote: | Full 4K 4096x2160 This is 4K
And we do not know if it will be 24, 48, or 60 frames, but the upgrade on the VW1100 will manage all.
And not if it will be REC 2020 or what it will be. |
You better stop before you make a total joke of yourself.. |
Sorry misunderstood you you ask for so much all the time.
No I do not have the rest that you ask for. Sorry
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | Diddern wrote: | | Full 4K 4096x2160 This is 4K |
Thanks.. Well im surprised that you dident even notice what Andreas was posting..
If i use those nr, it will be wrong, i need the H total x V total x framerate, and i doubt that 4K dont have any porch settings.
But i have to admit its fun.. I admire your confidence.. |
Like I said I don't know the timings, but I was sure you with your superior knowledge would know or find out. And of coarse 4K has porch settings. |
I noticed your answer, Just wanted to let Diddern finish what he started.. Not having a clue about what porch settings. is, and the need to know them to calculate the bandwidth/ pixel clock. |
You are right, I have not adjusted this on my projector I trust sony here.
And since i got my frist digital ,bandwidth and pixel clock has not been touched.
Or in my mind. And back in the old days people helpt me with adjustments and the hard part.
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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Here is the SMPTE pattern up close and now you can compare this to your Vidikron CRT stridsvognen and tell me wich shows the pattern the most correct? This is more like what I see on screen.
| Description: |
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Download |
| Filename: |
IMG_5506Krympet - Kopi.jpg |
| Filesize: |
320.53 KB |
| Downloaded: |
140 Time(s) |
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Last edited by Andreas21 on Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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The pixel clock is simple:
4096x2160=8,847,360
8,847,360*60/1,000,000=~530Mhz
But, why are we talking about porches with 4k? Porches are an analog term, and 4k isn't an analog format. The data rate on HDMI is higher with the "data islands", but they aren't the same as analog blanking intervals.
If you want to calculate rough bandwidth of 4k as an analog signal, then just take 1080p analog bandwidth * 4.25 - that'll get you in the ballpark.
Where are we going with this?
SC
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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😱
Last edited by Diddern on Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | The pixel clock is simple:
4096x2160=8,847,360
8,847,360*60/1,000,000=~530Mhz
But, why are we talking about porches with 4k? Porches are an analog term, and 4k isn't an analog format. The data rate on HDMI is higher with the "data islands", but they aren't the same as analog blanking intervals.
If you want to calculate rough bandwidth of 4k as an analog signal, then just take 1080p analog bandwidth * 4.25 - that'll get you in the ballpark.
Where are we going with this
Sorry lost internet.
Got this from Andreas when stridsvognen started.
And where are we going with this.
Fell of a long time ago. Ask
Mr superman from Denmark.
SC |
Last edited by Diddern on Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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stridsvognen
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Andreas21 wrote: | | Here is the SMPTE pattern up close and now you can compare this to your Vidikron CRT stridsvognen and tell me wicg shows the battern the most correct? This is more like what I see on screen. |
Its a nice shot, and still shows about the same as the other shots.
I think the reason to the change in light output on each pattern is the scaling not holding ˝ white ˝dark lines on all groups,
Also the reason i asked if it was possible to map the pattern pixel perfect on the 4K panel.
Then i see some convergence out of place, not sure if thats what makes the color shift in the pattern.
In all cases the digital will always have sharper lines than any CRT.
I hope you guys will try to understand that its not to piss off the digital, or claim any tech better than the other, i think it should be possible to talk about what we see as positive and negative sides to all kind of display device.
I asked for a picture taken so far away from the screen so it was easier to see the color and light output change, but this is fine, i can just step 4m back from my monitor, and see whats not so easy to see when sitting all close to it.
Its a very nice handeling of the pattern in many ways, specialy considering that its scaled.
And hope you will link this pattern together with the resolution talk we made.. where you see that crt wont adress each pixel as good as the digital, but in some/ most cases non of them will make output level corect on all resolutions.
Im refering to the 256 levels of each color of output to each pixel.
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | The pixel clock is simple:
4096x2160=8,847,360
8,847,360*60/1,000,000=~530Mhz
But, why are we talking about porches with 4k? Porches are an analog term, and 4k isn't an analog format. The data rate on HDMI is higher with the "data islands", but they aren't the same as analog blanking intervals.
If you want to calculate rough bandwidth of 4k as an analog signal, then just take 1080p analog bandwidth * 4.25 - that'll get you in the ballpark.
Where are we going with this?
SC |
I knew the 4k 60hz bandwith is 530 Mhz, but I just wanted to hear it from stridvognen who was talking about limited bandwith with the SMPTE 133 testpattern. That digital did not have porches and only analog means I learnt something new today!
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stridsvognen
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | The pixel clock is simple:
4096x2160=8,847,360
8,847,360*60/1,000,000=~530Mhz
But, why are we talking about porches with 4k? Porches are an analog term, and 4k isn't an analog format. The data rate on HDMI is higher with the "data islands", but they aren't the same as analog blanking intervals.
If you want to calculate rough bandwidth of 4k as an analog signal, then just take 1080p analog bandwidth * 4.25 - that'll get you in the ballpark.
Where are we going with this?
SC |
Hmm.. maybe i totaly lost track here.. so what your telling me is that the H total is 4096 and V total is 2160 ??
And those nr will display a image on a 4K display.?
When i sende my blu ray signal to any digital display, it needs specifik timings, or ill not get any image.
Try take a Radiance 4K processor, and put the pixel clock you calculated, and the H and V total you posted. tell me how its working.?
On a 4K digital display..
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: | | Here is the SMPTE pattern up close and now you can compare this to your Vidikron CRT stridsvognen and tell me wicg shows the battern the most correct? This is more like what I see on screen. |
Its a nice shot, and still shows about the same as the other shots.
I think the reason to the change in light output on each pattern is the scaling not holding ˝ white ˝dark lines on all groups,
Also the reason i asked if it was possible to map the pattern pixel perfect on the 4K panel.
Then i see some convergence out of place, not sure if thats what makes the color shift in the pattern.
In all cases the digital will always have sharper lines than any CRT.
I hope you guys will try to understand that its not to piss off the digital, or claim any tech better than the other, i think it should be possible to talk about what we see as positive and negative sides to all kind of display device.
I asked for a picture taken so far away from the screen so it was easier to see the color and light output change, but this is fine, i can just step 4m back from my monitor, and see whats not so easy to see when sitting all close to it.
Its a very nice handeling of the pattern in many ways, specialy considering that its scaled.
And hope you will link this pattern together with the resolution talk we made.. where you see that crt wont adress each pixel as good as the digital, but in some/ most cases non of them will make output level corect on all resolutions.
Im refering to the 256 levels of each color of output to each pixel. |
The VW1000 is a 3 chip SXRD and it will have some convergence, but it is quite good and only is a little off in green and green is the only color I can not adjust in the convergence adjustment. I can fix it with the others, but it is so close to perfect and not visible from seating distance so I don´t bother.
I have emailed SMPTE and asked for the pattern in real 4K and UHD so I can see the difference of the scaled and native.
_________________
http://www.minhembio.com/21Andreas
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stridsvognen
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Andreas21 wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: | | Here is the SMPTE pattern up close and now you can compare this to your Vidikron CRT stridsvognen and tell me wicg shows the battern the most correct? This is more like what I see on screen. |
Its a nice shot, and still shows about the same as the other shots.
I think the reason to the change in light output on each pattern is the scaling not holding ˝ white ˝dark lines on all groups,
Also the reason i asked if it was possible to map the pattern pixel perfect on the 4K panel.
Then i see some convergence out of place, not sure if thats what makes the color shift in the pattern.
In all cases the digital will always have sharper lines than any CRT.
I hope you guys will try to understand that its not to piss off the digital, or claim any tech better than the other, i think it should be possible to talk about what we see as positive and negative sides to all kind of display device.
I asked for a picture taken so far away from the screen so it was easier to see the color and light output change, but this is fine, i can just step 4m back from my monitor, and see whats not so easy to see when sitting all close to it.
Its a very nice handeling of the pattern in many ways, specialy considering that its scaled.
And hope you will link this pattern together with the resolution talk we made.. where you see that crt wont adress each pixel as good as the digital, but in some/ most cases non of them will make output level corect on all resolutions.
Im refering to the 256 levels of each color of output to each pixel. |
The VW1000 is a 3 chip SXRD and it will have some convergence, but it is quite good and only is a little off in green and green is the only color I can not adjust in the convergence adjustment. I can fix it with the others, but it is so close to perfect and not visible from seating distance so I don´t bother.
I have emailed SMPTE and asked for the pattern in real 4K and UHD so I can see the difference of the scaled and native. |
Now that would be a realy cool and powerfull patern to have.. 
I would like one where the resolution part was displayed in different levels, and colors, that will make a killer pattern to see what happens.
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stridsvognen
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: |
I'll try to post a couple of very high-quality screenshots tonight.
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Can you post it today.?
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Andreas21 wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: | | Here is the SMPTE pattern up close and now you can compare this to your Vidikron CRT stridsvognen and tell me wicg shows the battern the most correct? This is more like what I see on screen. |
Its a nice shot, and still shows about the same as the other shots.
I think the reason to the change in light output on each pattern is the scaling not holding ˝ white ˝dark lines on all groups,
Also the reason i asked if it was possible to map the pattern pixel perfect on the 4K panel.
Then i see some convergence out of place, not sure if thats what makes the color shift in the pattern.
In all cases the digital will always have sharper lines than any CRT.
I hope you guys will try to understand that its not to piss off the digital, or claim any tech better than the other, i think it should be possible to talk about what we see as positive and negative sides to all kind of display device.
I asked for a picture taken so far away from the screen so it was easier to see the color and light output change, but this is fine, i can just step 4m back from my monitor, and see whats not so easy to see when sitting all close to it.
Its a very nice handeling of the pattern in many ways, specialy considering that its scaled.
And hope you will link this pattern together with the resolution talk we made.. where you see that crt wont adress each pixel as good as the digital, but in some/ most cases non of them will make output level corect on all resolutions.
Im refering to the 256 levels of each color of output to each pixel. |
The VW1000 is a 3 chip SXRD and it will have some convergence, but it is quite good and only is a little off in green and green is the only color I can not adjust in the convergence adjustment. I can fix it with the others, but it is so close to perfect and not visible from seating distance so I don´t bother.
I have emailed SMPTE and asked for the pattern in real 4K and UHD so I can see the difference of the scaled and native. |
After we done the 1100 upgrade you and me can adjust green to. After what I've heard.
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: | | Here is the SMPTE pattern up close and now you can compare this to your Vidikron CRT stridsvognen and tell me wicg shows the battern the most correct? This is more like what I see on screen. |
Its a nice shot, and still shows about the same as the other shots.
I think the reason to the change in light output on each pattern is the scaling not holding ˝ white ˝dark lines on all groups,
Also the reason i asked if it was possible to map the pattern pixel perfect on the 4K panel.
Then i see some convergence out of place, not sure if thats what makes the color shift in the pattern.
In all cases the digital will always have sharper lines than any CRT.
I hope you guys will try to understand that its not to piss off the digital, or claim any tech better than the other, i think it should be possible to talk about what we see as positive and negative sides to all kind of display device.
I asked for a picture taken so far away from the screen so it was easier to see the color and light output change, but this is fine, i can just step 4m back from my monitor, and see whats not so easy to see when sitting all close to it.
Its a very nice handeling of the pattern in many ways, specialy considering that its scaled.
And hope you will link this pattern together with the resolution talk we made.. where you see that crt wont adress each pixel as good as the digital, but in some/ most cases non of them will make output level corect on all resolutions.
Im refering to the 256 levels of each color of output to each pixel. |
Nice to hear that some sense got into you. This pattern showed that my iPhone 4 did not get It right at all. Like I said.
And even scaled to 4K it looks dam good and manages this pattern very well. So I was right?
Here you see them together your machine and the VW1000 and based on the distance where the photos were taken,
I like you again to say what you see so everybody can hear.. This is very close to how it is shown in each corner with same light in each corner.
What about black and white. compared to yours?
How do you think dynamic is on this projector compared to yours?
VW1000 closer? to Original pattern 1080P?
New pic coming sorry
Last edited by Diddern on Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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LOL.. Diddern.. Dident you read the date on the thread you snapped the picture from..?
If you do you will notice that was about 2 weeks after i got my first CRT projector. Quite nice of a CRT setup with absolute 0 experience.. what you think.?
Here is the coment who was with the image..
""Here you see my 1:1 1080P resolution, not perfect. The photo is taken with free hand, it looks a little better live.
I didn't spend much time playing with all the different focus adjustments yet, Its just put on a table, and i'm bumping into it from time to time.. So ill wait spending days on that project. ""
I think i sende you the latest pictures of the CRT im working on. Did you loose them.?
If anyone is interested in my old thread it can be found here. To see how it all started..
https://www.curtpalme.com/forum_archived/viewtopic.php@t=31033.html
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | LOL.. Diddern.. Dident you read the date on the thread you snapped the picture from..?
If you do you will notice that was about 2 weeks after i got my first CRT projector. Quite nice of a CRT setup with absolute 0 experience.. what you think.?
Here is the coment who was with the image..
""Here you see my 1:1 1080P resolution, not perfect. The photo is taken with free hand, it looks a little better live.
I didn't spend much time playing with all the different focus adjustments yet, Its just put on a table, and i'm bumping into it from time to time.. So ill wait spending days on that project. ""
I think i sende you the latest pictures of the CRT im working on. Did you loose them.?
If anyone is interested in my old thread it can be found here. To see how it all started..
https://www.curtpalme.com/forum_archived/viewtopic.php@t=31033.html |
Send me the last then
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