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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | ecrabb wrote: | This is so stupid. We've seen this discussion over and over and over.
To digital guys:
Yes, it's a given that digital is now superior to CRT in most respects, save for a couple. But, here's the deal: To the CRT'rs left, they don't care. They like to tinker, they prize absolute black level over other aspects of image quality, and they like the repairability and cost-of-ownership of CRT. Give it up. They like what they like, and there's little sense in arguing about it.
To the CRT guys:
Yes, we all know there are a few attributes of CRT and CRT image quality you still find preferable, whether it's absolute black level, the "film look", or repairability. But, some people don't care about those things as much as they care about some of the things you don't care about. But, be warned.... If you bump an old CRT vs. digital thread with an extremely-biased CRT vs. digital pro/con post, don't act all surprised and incredulous if you fire somebody up (troll or not) and he takes you to task over it and another flam war ensues.
BTW, curtpalme.com isn't a "CRT forum" any longer. It hasn't been for years. Kal transitioned it to "home theater forum" years ago. Yes, it's the last place on the interwebs for CRT'ers to hang out, and Curt still does some business, but that's all sort of beside the point. There's a CRT subforum here, and there are a lot of CRT'ers here, but that's all. This is a home theater forum, and as such, digital talk or digital vs. CRT talk is just as welcome and reasonable here as CRT talk (save for this specific subforum, of course which should be about CRT or CRT vs. digital).
Cheers,
SC |
Agree..  |
CRT today picture might play very well to the faithful here but it is deliberately blind to the industry, the marketplace and, ultimately, to reality.
End og story
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Diddern wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | ecrabb wrote: | This is so stupid. We've seen this discussion over and over and over.
To digital guys:
Yes, it's a given that digital is now superior to CRT in most respects, save for a couple. But, here's the deal: To the CRT'rs left, they don't care. They like to tinker, they prize absolute black level over other aspects of image quality, and they like the repairability and cost-of-ownership of CRT. Give it up. They like what they like, and there's little sense in arguing about it.
To the CRT guys:
Yes, we all know there are a few attributes of CRT and CRT image quality you still find preferable, whether it's absolute black level, the "film look", or repairability. But, some people don't care about those things as much as they care about some of the things you don't care about. But, be warned.... If you bump an old CRT vs. digital thread with an extremely-biased CRT vs. digital pro/con post, don't act all surprised and incredulous if you fire somebody up (troll or not) and he takes you to task over it and another flam war ensues.
BTW, curtpalme.com isn't a "CRT forum" any longer. It hasn't been for years. Kal transitioned it to "home theater forum" years ago. Yes, it's the last place on the interwebs for CRT'ers to hang out, and Curt still does some business, but that's all sort of beside the point. There's a CRT subforum here, and there are a lot of CRT'ers here, but that's all. This is a home theater forum, and as such, digital talk or digital vs. CRT talk is just as welcome and reasonable here as CRT talk (save for this specific subforum, of course which should be about CRT or CRT vs. digital).
Cheers,
SC |
Agree.. |
CRT today picture might play very well to the faithful here but it is deliberately blind to the industry, the marketplace and, ultimately, to reality.
End og story |
So since you say its "End og story" it is so?
See this is why your position is pushed against so fervently by many. In your eyes it is absolute. Where
we , great its fine for you, but you have to set an absolute for the industry the market place and reality.
How arrogant you are.
There still is an industry that uses CRT over digital, Flight and war simulators.
There is still a market, see above and add the used market for those here.
Reality, look at the reality of the people who still love CRT whether you think it
is dead or not, it is not dead.
So go cut and burn your retinas with your artificially sharp and overly bright digital.
See i can be inflammatory too 
let us love our CRT's and you can love your Sony.
it really is that simple.
But you will come back with disbelief till no one should have a CRT anymore and that it has no use.
Jut like the atheists who don't understand those who believe in a God. You dont have to understand it just accept that there are those people out there.
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
Last edited by Nashou66 on Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Diddern wrote: | CRT today picture might play very well to the faithful here but it is deliberately blind to the industry, the marketplace and, ultimately, to reality.
End og story |
No, people arent "blind" to the industry or marketplace any more than you're blind to thh few clear advantages of CRT. Some things just aren't for you. Feel free to like what you like and what's good for you (a $10,000 digital), but that may not be right for another person.
Like what you like and let others do the same. End of story.
SC
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | | Diddern wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | ecrabb wrote: | This is so stupid. We've seen this discussion over and over and over.
To digital guys:
Yes, it's a given that digital is now superior to CRT in most respects, save for a couple. But, here's the deal: To the CRT'rs left, they don't care. They like to tinker, they prize absolute black level over other aspects of image quality, and they like the repairability and cost-of-ownership of CRT. Give it up. They like what they like, and there's little sense in arguing about it.
To the CRT guys:
Yes, we all know there are a few attributes of CRT and CRT image quality you still find preferable, whether it's absolute black level, the "film look", or repairability. But, some people don't care about those things as much as they care about some of the things you don't care about. But, be warned.... If you bump an old CRT vs. digital thread with an extremely-biased CRT vs. digital pro/con post, don't act all surprised and incredulous if you fire somebody up (troll or not) and he takes you to task over it and another flam war ensues.
BTW, curtpalme.com isn't a "CRT forum" any longer. It hasn't been for years. Kal transitioned it to "home theater forum" years ago. Yes, it's the last place on the interwebs for CRT'ers to hang out, and Curt still does some business, but that's all sort of beside the point. There's a CRT subforum here, and there are a lot of CRT'ers here, but that's all. This is a home theater forum, and as such, digital talk or digital vs. CRT talk is just as welcome and reasonable here as CRT talk (save for this specific subforum, of course which should be about CRT or CRT vs. digital).
Cheers,
SC |
Agree.. |
CRT today picture might play very well to the faithful here but it is deliberately blind to the industry, the marketplace and, ultimately, to reality.
End og story |
So since you say its "End og story" it is so?
See this is why your position is pushed against so fervently by many. In your eyes it is absolute. Where
we , great its fine for you, but you have to set an absolute for the industry the market place and reality.
How arrogant you are.
There still is an industry that uses CRT over digital, Flight and war simulators.
There is still a market, see above and add the used market for those here.
Reality, look at the reality of the people who still love CRT whether you think it
is dead or not, it is not dead.
So go cut and burn your retinas with your artificially sharp and overly bright digital.
See i can be inflammatory too
let us love our CRT's and you can love your Sony.
it really is that simple.
But you will come back with disbelief till no one should have a CRT anymore and that it has no use.
Jut like the atheists who don't understand those who believe in a God. You dont have to understand it just accept that there are those people out there.
Athanasios |
Flight and war simulators does not favour CRT anymore. All simulators are now upgrading and throwing out their CRT and replacing them with digitals. And of corse all new simulators is built with digitals, and now that laser is coming the lamp based digitals will be replaced with laser based digitals. In a few years there will be no simulators using CRT anymore and that is a fact.
_________________
http://www.minhembio.com/21Andreas
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Andreas21 wrote: | | ll simulators are now upgrading and throwing out their CRT and replacing them with digitals. And of corse all new simulators is built with digitals, and now that laser is coming the lamp based digitals will be replaced with laser based digitals. In a few years there will be no simulators using CRT anymore and that is a fact. |
Where did you get your facts?
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: | | ll simulators are now upgrading and throwing out their CRT and replacing them with digitals. And of corse all new simulators is built with digitals, and now that laser is coming the lamp based digitals will be replaced with laser based digitals. In a few years there will be no simulators using CRT anymore and that is a fact. |
Where did you get your facts? |
Mike why don't you tell him what part of your Job is. 
If his facts are right then you should be unemployed
Nashou
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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km987654
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2874
Location: Australia
TV/Projector: Barco BG809s
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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Any wonder the world is a screwed up as it is and we have a common interest.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | | mp20748 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: | | ll simulators are now upgrading and throwing out their CRT and replacing them with digitals. And of corse all new simulators is built with digitals, and now that laser is coming the lamp based digitals will be replaced with laser based digitals. In a few years there will be no simulators using CRT anymore and that is a fact. |
Where did you get your facts? |
Mike why don't you tell him what part of your Job is.
If his facts are right then you should be unemployed
Nashou |
I want to hear his response to see where he got his info, because being Didderns sidekick, he may have received them in a dream.
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km987654
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2874
Location: Australia
TV/Projector: Barco BG809s
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | | Diddern wrote: | CRT today picture might play very well to the faithful here but it is deliberately blind to the industry, the marketplace and, ultimately, to reality.
End og story |
No, people arent "blind" to the industry or marketplace any more than you're blind to thh few clear advantages of CRT. Some things just aren't for you. Feel free to like what you like and what's good for you (a $10,000 digital), but that may not be right for another person.
Like what you like and let others do the same. End of story.
SC |
Curt said it "why do we entertain him" this will be my last comment on any stupid unsupported posts made by Diddern.
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | Nashou66 wrote: | | mp20748 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: | | ll simulators are now upgrading and throwing out their CRT and replacing them with digitals. And of corse all new simulators is built with digitals, and now that laser is coming the lamp based digitals will be replaced with laser based digitals. In a few years there will be no simulators using CRT anymore and that is a fact. |
Where did you get your facts? |
Mike why don't you tell him what part of your Job is.
If his facts are right then you should be unemployed
Nashou |
I want to hear his response to see where he got his info, because being Didderns sidekick, he may have received them in a dream. |
Hahahaha
I start like you guys do.
And this is not me haha lol this is so funny I can't stand up straight.
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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| km987654 wrote: | | ecrabb wrote: | | Diddern wrote: | CRT today picture might play very well to the faithful here but it is deliberately blind to the industry, the marketplace and, ultimately, to reality.
End og story |
No, people arent "blind" to the industry or marketplace any more than you're blind to thh few clear advantages of CRT. Some things just aren't for you. Feel free to like what you like and what's good for you (a $10,000 digital), but that may not be right for another person.
Like what you like and let others do the same. End of story.
SC |
Curt said it "why do we entertain him" this will be my last comment on any stupid unsupported posts made by Diddern. |
Again if you did not get it CRT might play very well to the faithful here but it is deliberately blind to the industry, the marketplace and, ultimately, to reality.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Diddern wrote: |
Again if you did not get it CRT might play very well to the faithful here but it is deliberately blind to the industry, the marketplace and, ultimately, to reality. |
So if I agree, will you jump on your horse and ride off into the sunset, and by all means take your sidekick with you?
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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Well at least we are now fighting the same ******* now
_________________
701s->runco933->8500ultra->cinemax->9500mp->919 splitpack + cinemax
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="mp20748"] | Diddern wrote: |
Again if you did not get it CRT might play very well to the faithful here but it is deliberately blind to the industry, the marketplace and, ultimately, to reality. |
So if I agree, will you jump on your horse and ride off into the sunset, and by all means take your sidekick with you?[/quote
Depends on my mood, and say it as you mean it hehe
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: | | ll simulators are now upgrading and throwing out their CRT and replacing them with digitals. And of corse all new simulators is built with digitals, and now that laser is coming the lamp based digitals will be replaced with laser based digitals. In a few years there will be no simulators using CRT anymore and that is a fact. |
Where did you get your facts? |
In Europe simulators with CRTīs are being replaced with digitals at quite a fast rate. I might be wrong with my a couple of years prediction, but CRT simulators are on itīs way out. There is no new simulators built today with CRT projectors, all new innstallations is done with digitals, or am I wrong about that to??
I know people working with this in Europe and they tell me all CRT simulators will be replaced with digitals, but they are surely wrong about this.
And some of you call Diddern my boy and you call me Diddernīs sidekick, you guys are so funny. And when people are questioning your beloved CRTīS you want them to leave this place at once, really mature.
_________________
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Andreas21 wrote: | | mp20748 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: | | ll simulators are now upgrading and throwing out their CRT and replacing them with digitals. And of corse all new simulators is built with digitals, and now that laser is coming the lamp based digitals will be replaced with laser based digitals. In a few years there will be no simulators using CRT anymore and that is a fact. |
Where did you get your facts? |
In Europe simulators with CRTīs are being replaced with digitals at quite a fast rate. I might be wrong with my a couple of years prediction, but CRT simulators are on itīs way out. There is no new simulators built today with CRT projectors, all new innstallations is done with digitals, or am I wrong about that to??
I know people working with this in Europe and they tell me all CRT simulators will be replaced with digitals, but they are surely wrong about this. |
Some of what you say here is true, in that there may not be any new simulators being built that will be using CRT. However, there are many CRT projectors still in use. Their use is in specialized applications where the design limits a digital to replace a short throw CRT. For instance, there are submarines and simulators that cost millions of dollars and were designed around the CRT projector. Much like there are some military applications where very large screen projection systems would need to have the best in black or low end performance, because it has to be able to display what is happening in a near dark environment (battle field, etc). I don't know of a digital that could make that happen, so the CRT has been used, and repurchased several times even in the past ten years.
Now picture in your mind the purchase of 50 million dollars worth of flight simulators that were designed around a CRT projector. You would also have to understand that a multi-window flight simulator would need a technology with flexible geometry. The Digitals became better suited for this later, using a system called Flex or Warp, meaning the bending of the image was done in the software, but that did not remove the problem of throw distance issues. So there are still a ton of CRT projectors still being used, and some new CRT's still being sold (VDC). But for the most part, you are right, the industry is changing and newer designs are not using CRT. But if you ever visit one of the sights, they are excited about the brightness, but frustrated with the ability to see things in low light on the screen distinctly.
Ever see a planetarium using digital technology?
If you had, you would keep thinking someone needs to turn out some lights somewhere in the room. They have gotten better, but you'll need to hear the frustration they wrestle with, because they expect to see things better in the darker display systems. And let me not even mention MOTION...................
Last edited by mp20748 on Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:49 pm; edited 2 times in total
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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Nobody knows about the future. If you get bad luck and loose your job and don't have the money to buy new bulbs or replace the throw away technology than you would be happy if you had a nice old CRT that can be repaired for little and plays your movies for years to come.
_________________
701s->runco933->8500ultra->cinemax->9500mp->919 splitpack + cinemax
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: | | mp20748 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: | | ll simulators are now upgrading and throwing out their CRT and replacing them with digitals. And of corse all new simulators is built with digitals, and now that laser is coming the lamp based digitals will be replaced with laser based digitals. In a few years there will be no simulators using CRT anymore and that is a fact. |
Where did you get your facts? |
In Europe simulators with CRTīs are being replaced with digitals at quite a fast rate. I might be wrong with my a couple of years prediction, but CRT simulators are on itīs way out. There is no new simulators built today with CRT projectors, all new innstallations is done with digitals, or am I wrong about that to??
I know people working with this in Europe and they tell me all CRT simulators will be replaced with digitals, but they are surely wrong about this. |
Some of what you say here is true, in that there may not be any new simulators being built that will be using CRT. However, there are many CRT projectors still in use. Their use is in specialized applications where the design limits a digital to replace a short throw CRT. For instance, there are submarines and simulators that cost millions of dollars and were designed around the CRT projector. Much like there are some military applications where very large screen projection systems would need to have the best in black or low end performance, because it has to be able to display what is happening in a near dark environment (battle field, etc). I don't know of a digital that could make that happen, so the CRT has been used, and repurchased several times even in the past ten years.
Now picture in your mind the purchase of 50 million dollars worth of flight simulators that were designed around a CRT projector. You would also have to understand that a multi-window flight simulator would need a technology with flexible geometry. The Digitals became better suited for this later, using a system called Flex or Warp, meaning the bending of the image was done in the software, but that did not remove the problem of throw distance issues. So there are still a ton of CRT projectors still being used, and some new CRT's still being sold (VDC). But for the most part, you are right, the industry is changing and newer designs are not using CRT. But if you ever visit one of the sights, they are excited about the brightness, but frustrated with the ability to see things in low light on the screen distinctly.
Ever see a planetarium using digital technology?
If you had, you would keep thinking someone needs to turn out some lights somewhere in the room. They have gotten better, but you'll need to hear the frustration they wrestle with, because they expect to see things better in the darker display systems. And let me not even mention MOTION................... |
Not many planetariums use digital tech, but there is some using the Carl Zeiss Velvet 2chip DLP projector with 2500000:1 on /off contrast and amazing blacklevel. Here is the link: http://www.zeiss.com/planetariums/en_de/products/products/skymaster-velvet-hybrid-planetarium.html
And motion resolution on DLP is quite good, but not as good as CRT. When you get 2 or 6 chip laser DLP projectors in the simulation market no one is going to miss the dark abilities of the CRT anymore. For HT the performance of the X500/700/900 is way past the CRT in the darker areas of the pictures.
_________________
http://www.minhembio.com/21Andreas
Last edited by Andreas21 on Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:01 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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| redfox001 wrote: | | Nobody knows about the future. If you get bad luck and loose your job and don't have the money to buy new bulbs or replace the throw away technology than you would be happy if you had a nice old CRT that can be repaired for little and plays your movies for years to come. |
To me a digital is not throw away tech it can be fixed just as your CRTīs. I personally have never owned a projector longer than 3 years (my VW1100) and normally use my HT about 3-400 hours a year, this makes me change bulbs about once every 3-4 years and it is not a problem to me. And the JVC X500 is "only" about 4000$ today and I find that to be really cheap for the picturequality I get.
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